The Difference between Progressives and Liberals

Updated on May 22, 2017
TessSchlesinger profile image

Growing up in a political family, Tessa joined her first political party at 14. Her interest in progressive politics & economics continues.

The Progressive message will do the same for the 21st century that the Enlightenment did for the 19th century. Without the Enlightenment, we would not have the modern world. Without the Progressive message, we will not have a world. Liberalism is based on the tenet of freedom of or for the individual. Progressivism is based on the tenet of providing the tools needed for the well being of all people on earth. This does not mean that Progressives do not support freedom of choice for the individual, but it does mean that progressives are more concerned to find solutions that benefit everybody, and that freedom of choice is not the leading driving force.

The early progressives rejected Social Darwinism. In other words, they were people who believed that the problems society faced (poverty, violence, greed, racism, class warfare) could best be addressed by providing good education, a safe environment,
The early progressives rejected Social Darwinism. In other words, they were people who believed that the problems society faced (poverty, violence, greed, racism, class warfare) could best be addressed by providing good education, a safe environment, | Source

Liberal Concerns

Liberals concern themselves with moral issues like abortion. They will argue about issues like race, homosexuality and transgender, and feminism. The liberal concerns themselves with issues of ethics and morality, but does not focus on the infrastructure for practical solutions to practical problems. Liberalism came into being alongside the Enlightenment towards the middle of the 17th century.

It was proposed in order to avoid class wars like the French Revolution. In particular, England installed the House of Commons (the common people) so that the 'common' people could have a say in government. However, they made sure that the House of Lords (those born to the aristocracy) could veto anything the House of Commons produced if it didn't suit the elite.

In America, the same system works. It's not really democracy. The Electoral College has the right to install the president they want - not the people's choice.

Recently, Hillary Clinton made use of super delegates to make sure she won the nomination even before the people had voted.

This is Liberalism - an idea that isn't quite what it seems to be. The ideas are there, certainly, but when you look at the mechanism to ensure equality, they don't exist.

Progressive Concerns

The progressive looks at a situation and asks “Does it work for everybody?” If it does, no reason to do anything. If it doesn’t, then the next question is “How do I make it work for everybody?” Thus while Clinton may be a liberal (or not), Bernie Sanders is a Progressive.

As a Progressive, Sanders has fought to write off student debt, provide free medical care for all, increase the minimum wage to $15 per hour, get rid of money in politics so that even poor people can become leaders, etc. These are all issues that affect a great many people and have little to do with morality, except, perhaps, that it is immoral to allow people to struggle the way they do when the resources are available.

Progressivism came into being at the end of the 19th century and three presidents were Progressive. They thought that while the ideas were good, there had to be means of implementing those ideas. Progressivism is the means that ensure liberalism cane exist.

At the time, there were no rules about who could work and for what pay. The government believed that private enterprise could run without interference. Industry took advantage of the situation!
At the time, there were no rules about who could work and for what pay. The government believed that private enterprise could run without interference. Industry took advantage of the situation! | Source

Why Progressives are vital to the survival of humanity

While the Liberal is busy debating with climate deniers as to the validity of climate change, the Progressive has already seen the damage is working towards solutions.

Progressivism recognises that the growth of the population (now 7.5 billion people) has outpaced the mineral resources available to us. The earth simply does not have enough resources to supply us all to the degree that the consumer model demands.

Progressives, therefore, know that the consumer model needs to go in order for the earth not to be completely depleted of its natural resources (leaving nothing for future generations).

While liberals believe that it is wrong for people not to have equal opportunity, Progressives understand the violent outcomes of great inequality and seek to educate all people to a level which makes them able to survive and live with well being. Ergo, Progressives seek to make a good education free to everybody because without it, sooner or later, countries will sink into third world conditions.

More than that, if we do not stop the path of destruction that business and overpopulation is wreaking on our planet, then we will become extinct within the next century.

The reason Progressivism is vital to the 21st century is that when you have weapons (biological warfare, nuclear weapons) that can lead to extinction, you have to make sure that the masses of people aren’t angry enough to do desperate and insane things.

Progressivism was responsible for the prosperity of the American worker

Some Progressive ideas

  • A minimum wage that provides people who have only one job enough to cover food and rent. This minimum wage must be linked to inflation so that companies can’t just up prices in order to ensure that they retain the same level of profits. A liveable wage is essential, so that dissatisfaction remains negligible.
  • Free medical care for all. When people are unable to pay for necessary medical care, it means that they either die or life in a state of ill health. This is simply uncivilized (and un-Christian for those who care). People who are healthy work harder, are more creative, happier, and more prone to contribute to the world around them. Sick people drain resources.
  • Free education is vital to a peaceful world. The more uneducated people are, the more they make stupid decisions, are liable to use crime to earn a living, and in general become a burden to the population. When the cost of imprisoning people is many times the cost of education, education becomes the better way of not only avoiding a population of criminals, but of cutting down overhead costs. The American education budget is $69 billion for 100% of the population while the prison budget is $49 billion for .7% of the population. Oh, and the military budget is $596 billion.
  • Progressivism calls for the demise of organisations that harm the general well being of the population like too-big-to-fail banks, globalisation, the TPP trade agreement, and more. Economic systems that enhance the well being of the top .01% at the expense of the 99% mean that the end is likely to be revolution, fascism, or both. Neither the French Revolution nor the Russian Revolution ended well, and both were the result of a few people at the top living like kings of the universe while the lives of the majority of people were a constant financial struggle. Progressivism makes policies that avoid violence and destructive outcomes.
  • Progressivism calls for a Universal Basic Income in order to alleviate poverty and prevent revolution as soft robotics and Artificial Intelligence remove half the jobs within the next five to eight years. Obama has said that 80% of jobs will go to computers. It is, therefore, vital for the people to find a means of income that is not based on a job. Progressivism looks at what is coming and makes a plan to meet it. Liberalism focuses on ideas that have been fought over for half a century or more.

Progressives are not Democratic!

A Parallel with the French Revolution

Some have claimed that we are now at the same stage that France ws in just before the revolution which began with the storming of the Bastille. Is it a coincidence that the king put people into prison (the Bastille) for minor infringements or just plain dislike? Does this not ring a bell with American justice and laws? Too many people are in prison for smoking a joint!

But there is another parallel here.

The French Revolution was never started by the poor people. They were too downtrodden. Instead it was started by the educated middle classes – the people who had some things but not enough things, and the people who had sufficient education to question the system. Primarily, it is intellectuals who are leading the progressive revolution internationally.

It was progressivism that set the stage of a successful modern America.
It was progressivism that set the stage of a successful modern America.

So who are you?

See results

The Growth of Progressivism Internationally

Whether it’s Occupy, Bernie Sanders in the States, or Nicola Sturgeon and Jeremy Corbyn in the UK, people are tired of fighting over the rights and/or wrongs of a situation while the Conservative brand of politics keeps the ‘peasants’ down!

Theresa May, the replacement Prime Minister in the UK, has just replaced the Eton elite with the government educated. She has also called for more money to be allocated to the poor and for the demands of the wealthy to be paid less attention to. Naturally, there has been a backlash from some of her rich donors. And you think the rich don’t expect their largesse to be reciprocated? Whether May will follow through remains to be seen. (She hasn't. She needs her rich donors.)

Since Thatcher and Reagan privatized state industry and demolished the Unions, the middle classes have shrunk into poverty internationally. That’s because many other countries were influenced by Thatcher and Reagan, and they privatized as well. Unions became a dirty word.

Thirty years on, there are now so many educated poor (hard working poor, as well), that they just don’t agree with either capitalism, conservatism, or liberalism anymore. Now they want to kick ass, and progressivism is the tool!

© 2016 Tessa Schlesinger


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    • TessSchlesinger profile image

      Tessa Schlesinger 2 months ago from South Africa

      And that is why it's so important not to use one's own experience as a guage for other people's lives and situations! :)

    • profile image

      DigitalSylvr 2 months ago

      Hi Tessa,

      We live in Oregon. Another assumption I made was that minimum wage was the same everywhere. But I am not making things up. $10.25 per hour and where he works now, the starting wage is $12.00 per hour. Of course way to low to really rent on his own, etc..

    • TessSchlesinger profile image

      Tessa Schlesinger 2 months ago from South Africa

      Digital Sylvr

      1. I’ve been gone 3 years. Countries don’t change in 3 years.

      2. I don’t base my conclusions on personal experience (which is what you seem to be doing by mentioning your friend as an example). I use figures from state departments, surveys, studies, etc.

      3. If someone makes minimum wage, working 40 hours per week ($7.25), they make $14 grand per year. Certainly your son might have made more than $20 K in a year, but he was working a lot more than 40 hours. What that means in real terms is his health will probably be affected in some way. It also means he doesn’t have time to travel internationally and get informed. A relative works 60 hours per week (Houston, Texas). Her income is about $36,000 a month on that, but she has become obese and that worries the hell out of me.

      4. A median income means the half way point at which something meets. So, for instance, if 200,000 people earned $1 per year and 1 person earned $200,000 per year, the median income is $100,000 per year doesn’t mean that most of the people in the country are making $100,000 per year. Using the ‘median’ to measure how much people earn in America is an extremely dishonest way to get people in America to believe that most people are earning decent money. They aren’t.

      5. This is a 2013 CBS news report. QUOTE: Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.

      QUOTE: The gauge defines "economic insecurity" as a year or more of periodic joblessness, reliance on government aid such as food stamps or income below 150 percent of the poverty line. Measured across all races, the risk of economic insecurity rises to 79 percent.

      Forget about median measurements. They don’t tell you how many people are living on or below the poverty line.

      6. I lived in San Diego, California and Houston, Texas. However, my information is NOT based on personal experience, but on objective information gained from studies, research, newspaper reports, etc. One does NOT measure a country by one’s personal experience, because personal experience varies for everybody.

      7. It is impossible to make a million in the USA without either a) overcharging on a product or b) paying staff minimum wage. This is dishonest. It is unethical. It is how people make millions in America. Up until the mid 60s, business used a cost-plus model to determine prices. Since then, ‘charging what the market will bear’ has resulted in rising inequality. Saying a friend has a million doesn’t mean much without knowing exactly how and when it was made.

      8. Living within one’s means is NOT what makes one rich unless one has money over. If one is living in San Diego paying $900 for a studio apartment (about the cheapest one can get) and earning $11000 per month, one has to be on food stamps to come out. It is unadulterated bullarkey that the reason one isn’t coming out on a minimum wage is because one is wasting money.

      9. These days, people under 35, cannot afford rent nevermind buy a house. Sure, you’ve got a house. You bought it in a time and a place when America hadn’t yet being influenced by laizzes faire economics. Here’s what the real picture looks like:

      QUOTE Homeownership keeps declining, according to the Joint Center for Housing Studies' detailed and comprehensive 2017 State of the Nation's Housing report, in part because homes prices in many markets have continued to go up while wages have not kept pace. In 2016, "the homeownership rate fell to 63.4 percent, marking the 12th consecutive year of declines."

      QUOTE: A lot of people who would like to buy are stuck renting, Harvard reports: "The surge in rental demand that began in 2005 is broad-based — including several types of households that traditionally prefer homeownership."

      10. You said “I have always felt Europe and other countries that allow Seniors to retire and the family takes care of them is totally the way things should work” Where do you get that information from. Every single first world country in Europe pays their seniors a very good government ‘pension.’ Children do NOT provide for their parents. I don’t know where you get that information from but it’s complete rubbish. My late father received a $3000 a month pension from Germany in his last years.

      This is the British State pension.

      11. I’m sure glad that you and your family enjoy working so much. And if you enjoy it, there is nothing wrong with it. But forcing your love affair with work on people who have less energy, less talent, less health, less opportunity, etc on others is not kind. Until the industrial revolution, human beings worked 20 hours per week as do all mammals. There is a reason that Americans have the highest mental health issues in the world - 50% of Americans have mental health issues, and that comes from a government site. You have the fattest, unhealthiest people in the world, plus the unhappiest. So much for all that work. People in European countries work the least, earn really good money, and are the happiest.

      12. Glad you’re beginning to see that Progressives might be right in some things! 

      13. Yup, people like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Al Gore, and about half a million of them made their money by overcharging on goods and underpaying staff. Six people in the world own as much as half of the world’s wealth.

      14. No argument that the US helped win the war soonest, but the number of Americans who see to think that America won the war on behalf of the British Empire are very wrong.

      15. The problems are extremely complex! I don’t know if they will be sorted out!

    • profile image

      DigitalSylvr 2 months ago

      I'm sorry, I just have to address a couple of your comments. But I'm wondering how you come to these conclusions having not lived here in some time. I live here. I and my wife have family that live mostly in the western states. I can only wonder that you lived in some areas that I'm not familiar with. I just looked up the US median income for households in 2017 and it's at $59K. So granted, the inequality between rich and poor is terrible, but to say 50% of the country makes less than $20k per year is just wrong. My son who lives with us makes minimum wage and made over $20k last year. Not a lot but he did.

      The other comment about anyone who can accumulate a million dollars must be crooked is kind of insulting. I can say my friend doesn't need to steel anyone's money because he saves his. Basic financial discipline.

      As I said before living within your means is key. Saving for a down payment on a home. A home builds your net worth and really only a few times has real estate lost money in our country on a wide scale. We lost everything or at least our net worth was negative for several years until about 2011 when home values began to rise again. But for 10 years we were upside down. I never lost my job during that time. Had I lost my job, well I think that's where family comes in. I have always felt Europe and other countries that allow Seniors to retire and the family takes care of them is totally the way things should work. My mom and dad - approaching 90 still work. They will not consider being a burden on the family. I think it's crazy, but they are healthy, happy and sharp as hell.

      On another note, you have awakened me to the progressive views and I do appreciate those. The latest Trump tax break hurts the poorest and takes from the safety net that Obama had established with the last recession. I don't agree with that and I feel the US is out of balance in a lot of areas. I will support some kind of agenda that can some how tax or encourage the richest to give more to the lowest income levels.

      I just heard the guy at Amazon is now worth $105Billion dollars. That is the most obscene thing I've ever heard. He could keep 10Billion, probably more money than any 50 people could spend in a lifetime. He could make 95,000 people millionaires. Isn't that crazy?

      I fully believe in the very highest net worth people paying a tax that goes directly to the poorest and neediest people, our children affected by poverty.

      Also I did some research on whether WWII was helped by the US entering the conflict. I think there is no argument the US helped win the war sooner. The Russians paid a terrible price and I had never put a lot of thought into how much it hurt other countries.

      The US is arrogant for certain. And we have a lot of problems. The politics are not helping. I feel that the only real way to postpone the ultimate demise our political leaders will drive this country to is for Progressives or folks with common sense to step back and start organizing from the ground up. They have social media. They have power that has never been available before. The problem is quite large and complex. But if they could pick one item. Just one thing that everyone want's changed. They exist.

    • TessSchlesinger profile image

      Tessa Schlesinger 2 months ago from South Africa

      So, Digital Sylvr, this will be my last post as well. Certainly all the people from third world countries want to live in your country. That's because they believed the propaganda. You have lots of Latinos and Africans there. You do, however, not get people from first world countries - German, Australia, New Zealand, France, etc. wanting to live there. That's because other first world countries are far better.

      You also now have a reverse immigration problem. There are more people leaving America than going to America.

      This is why people from first world ccountries will noteasily come to America anymore.

      Why did Trump win?

      Because the kind of Americans who voted for him are just as stupid as he is? Because of gerrymandering? Because Hillary Clinton is corrupt?

      If Bernie Sanders had been the DNC candidate, he would have won down, but the DNC is just as corrupt as Hillary is.

      Your 'friend' probably lied, cheated, did illegal things, etc to make his money, so forgive me if I don't believe how much he made in America being honest. You're speaking about an America that existed a long time ago. It doesn't exist anymore.

      You are also insulting people like my daughter and myself who worked out guts out and were paid pittance. I have forgotten the number of companies who asked me to write for them without pay - including Hollywood!

      In your country, very few people make $30 per year. More than 50% make less than $20 per year and 25% make $11 per year or less. You live in one of the most unequal countries in the world. Your workers are totally screwed.

      I think it's clear that you believe things that were generally true in America in the 50s and 60s, but haven't been true for a very long time.

    • profile image

      DigitalSylvr 2 months ago

      This will be my last post on this issue. I do thank you for pointing out some things that most of the world takes for granted, but as I have only traveled to Canada and Mexico, I’m probably limited to a large degree.

      I will leave a few comments and observations.

      Since Trump was elected, the tone from the liberals has, well changed a bit. I can’t answer for other Republicans, but I don’t know these people that hated you for being liberal. What is to hate exactly?

      I have a friend who does not make as much money as I do. I don’t have a college degree but I have achieved a decent livelihood. My friend managed his money extremely well. He saves and does not follow the norm here in the US and is worth well over $1M maybe over 2 now. He is 40 years old. He tells me he will pay for his children’s college and anything above that will be donated to some of his favorite charities. He does not have a degree. He sees the importance of it, but he said leaving money like that just ruins people. He works hard, saves and invests. He said he will not retire until 55 because that’s just because he feels a lot of things can happen after that and wants to put things in place to protect what he has. I believe he gives a fair amount of his income, but I have no idea how much.

      In our country anyone who makes $30k per year and saves 10% but invests it in the common stock market, even conservatively and starts before they are 22 or so, can retire a millionaire. I know health and setbacks come, I’ve had my share. I started over in my career two times and have lost all my assets twice since I was 30.

      Our country may not be that modern nor very tech savvy, but it’s where a lot of the world wants to live. No idea why when everywhere else is so, well, advanced.

      About Trump. Totally indefensible. I can’t say I appreciate his tweets, his style, his well just about anything. But stupid? I know that’s what our media is hanging their hurt feelings on. But on the other side you have to hand it to him. His campaign was self-financed. He was out spent 13 to 1 on his campaign. He beat over a dozen seasoned politicians to get to the election. Then he beat what should have been a total slam dunk against the most crooked and powerful political ‘engine’ in just about all of history. He did not have the press on his side nor Hollywood, nor any talk show, nor really any group anywhere at all. Why did I vote for him? I didn’t. But I didn’t vote for anyone.

      He beat them all so what does that say about all his opponents? Start with insane, stupid, naïve and work your way down from there.

      Whether you’re a dem or republican, I feel the US is still one of the best countries in the world. There probably is too much greed at the top and I don’t know how to fix that. I do want more social programs for those that can benefit. Somewhere in between both parties are great solutions to most of the current challenges. They just need to be incentivized to get there.

    • TessSchlesinger profile image

      Tessa Schlesinger 2 months ago from South Africa

      Hi Digital Sylvr. You're definitely asking the right question. "HOw do we get from here to there."

      At the end of the French Revolution, when the common people chopped off the heads of all the rich people (the aristocracy and the king), they wanted to avoid the same thing that happened to them. So they created democracy/parliament.

      The Russians didn't heed what was happening and 150 years later, the tzar and his family also got killed.

      Or perhaps you might like to read Billionaire Nick Hanauer's words "The pitchforks are coming."

      I even heard Olive Huffington (Huffington Post) warn that the poor would come for the rich.

      So, really, the problem is not how do we get from here to there. It's how do we get from here to there without bloodshed, because while the rich will not give up their booty, the poor are going to take it anyway.

      Enough is enough.

      This is a cycle in history. Whenever there has been great inequality, a change has come. From the slaves rebelling in ancient Rome (Spartacus) to the townships in South Africa becoming so violent that De Klerk had to release Mandela and eradicate apartheid.

      I am truly surprised that you think it's liberals that are so full of hate. You see, I am not American

      I was an American immigrant for 11 years, but then I got out. I have never met such hatred as I have in the USA. It came from Repuiblicans. They called me a libtard (at the time I had no interest in American politics and I didn't know what they were talking about). I couldn't understand why I was being attacked for values which were the norm in the rest of the first world.

      It took me a while to comprehend that America was way behind the freedoms of the rest of the world (186 countries out of194 countries in the world are democracies).

      America was also behind in technology (behind Europe and the UK) and it felt like I had gone back to the 1950s in South Africa.

      You talk about America losing its place in the world - as the protector of all things. I think you need to get out of America and travel a bit. You have no idea how advanced the rest of the world is. Hell, when China starts taking leading steps in controling climate change and America denies its happening, you have to realize that America has already lost any leadership it thought it had.

      There are lots of myths in America. I discovered them when I arrived. I was stunned to realize that it was America who won WII and that if they hadn't, Europe would be run by Nazis.

      Actually, if one single country contributed more than any other country, it was the USSR. They were the country that went into Germany and they were the ones who conquered Berlin. Not the USA. They provided about three times what the USA did and they lost about 10 times the men. They also provided about 10 timesthe men. You need to go look at the part Russia played in WWII. In the rest of the world, historians say that the British Empire would have won WWII maybe a year later if the States hadn't entered, but the biggest contributions came from the British Empire and the USSR - not the USA. That is simply feel good propaganda that Americans tell themselves.

      America is not leading the rest of the world.Americans are not fighting for freedom. Americans are interfering in order to make money for their country. The single strongest factor that is likely to cause WWIII is America - as seen by the rest of the world - the civilized world, that is.

      So to go back to the beginning.

      How to get from here to there?

      I don't know.

      I don't think it's possible. I think Trump will force America into the third world even faster than Hillary would have. There is no hope for the States.

      I just hope that Trump doesn't trigger WWIII (how can Republicans not see that this man is insane, ignorant, and stupid?) before he destroys America.

      If you think of any answers, let meknow.

      Oh, and I left America. It's simply too tough to live there. And it's very unkind towards those it considers losers.

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      DigitalSylvr 2 months ago

      Just wanted to add a couple more things. My family has benefited greatly from liberal initiatives which became part of the US system. I thank God there is Social Security, unemployment compensation and especially Medicare. All those are where I'm at these days. I would be in a very sorry state without these. Why am I conservative as a Senior, I'm really not sure, but I do look at things from more of a financial perspective. I really believe if the people ( all the people ) could stop fighting each other. The hate coming from the dems about Trump is blinding. But at the end of the day as long as our political system keeps the country at odds, it's like a continuous civil war. Take health care for instance. Everybody wants to spend less money for good healthcare, everybody. I understand it's the healthcare lobby that really is in control as they have both sides in their pockets. See as the dog getting wagged by the tail that all backwards. Because I can't talk to the other party and agree on one thing, we can't exercise our will. The Healthcare lobby is more powerful than every other lobby there is. So no matter what happens, no matter which party is in power, we still pay double for our drugs and that isnt' going to change until we as a people step back and start working together on issues that we can agree on. We have the internet.. You think we could harness this power.

    • profile image

      DigitalSylvr 2 months ago


      Thank you for this information. I'm sure your correct.

      But lets cut to the chase. How do we get from here to there in the United States. Politics aside, is it really possible? Because at the end of the day we all want the same things. And even if the US did lay down their defense spending, helping other countries, being a policeman in the world... etc and the parties came completely together and said you were right, no you were right, no you were right, etc... People that have so much would be willing to give it all away. The Kennedy's telling their new children, sorry, no inheritance for you. We're limiting you to a $20,000 per month allowance for the rest of your life... Well seems kind of crazy, but what I have seen with Dems in office, not much headway takes place because I feel they all are a little corrupt. Both sides, absolutely. I've felt for a very long time the whole system is wagging us, not the other way around it should be. And then I'm afraid if we really did go this way, would the United States lose it's stature and clout in the world. Would the other world forces run unhindered towards very bad behavior as in pre World War II if there wasn't a big brother ready to come in and make things right or very very wrong. I would love your comments on these concerns. I'm teachable.


    • TessSchlesinger profile image

      Tessa Schlesinger 2 months ago from South Africa

      DigitalSylvr "If you divided all the money in the world and gave everybody the same, within a year, the rich would be rich and the poor would be poor."

      My late father told me that in the late 50s. He believed it because he had been taught it - just as you have bee taught that.

      It's not true.

      It's a piece of propaganda to justify the rich keeping their money so that they don't have to pay more taxes to change the situation.

      In reality, every piece of research and evidence has shown that it is not true.

      Countries in north,western Europe where there is a great deal of equality have shown that if you give people money, they improve their lives. Studies involving Universal Basic Income show repeatedly that if you give people money, they improve their lives, and they become wealthier.

      You need to google that - BIEN is a good word to google.

      In 2008, when America bailed out the bankers and moneymakers, Iceland sent their bankers and moneymakers to jail. America has never recovered. Iceland has.

      Finland shut down all its private schooling half a century ago and the government paid for every bit of education in the country. For the past two decades, Finland has had the best education system in the world, and everybody, regardless of IQ is educated to the same level.

      Germany has free university for all who qualify. The Germans are extremely well educated, and the country is the most prosperous in Europe.

      In Spain, there is an area called Basque. Seventy years ago, a Catholic priest taught three young college boys how to run a co-operative. Mondragon never pays its CEO more than 5 times what the person at the bottom of the company is earning. Education is free. There is an enromous welfare fund for anyone who doesn't have a job or who is ill. Basque is the single most prosperous area in Europe - and that is saying something.

      So what's happened here is that you absorbed a certain number of untruths as you were growing up. You think they are true, but they actually aren't.

      I know that changing one's world view is incredibly difficult.I wish you ease in your search for the truth.

    • profile image

      DigitalSylvr 2 months ago

      Lately I've been attempting to understand what Liberals and Progressives believe. This is a very good article that explains a lot. I don't have the depth of research and knowledge and I am somewhat confused about how either side achieves success and the cost of that success. I'm older and more conservative than many in my family who are both liberal and progressives. I have been challenged by their views and I have to think I am very biased. I don't mean to be, but they and I want the same things. We both want health care for all and education for each and every person would achieve so much. I just don't see the execution of either as practical nor feasible. I could not pay to have my children go to college. Is that my fault, their fault or oppressive rich folks' fault. I don't really see how one can punish someone for their place in society because of their financial standing without bias and the same kind of thing that violates peoples freedom? At my age I've discovered people are different in so many ways. I feel that if something epic happened and all the financial assets in our country were taken and divided equally among every last women and child. At the end of a year or a decade, there would be rich and poor. Same as today. And I feel most of the rich would be the same as today and the poor would be the same. Not 100% but say 90%. I've known people and they can be driven. I've seen college educated that are flakes. I had a career in an industry that I observed well educated folks and it comes down to the amount of work and quality of that work delivered. I know this is just one drop in the bucket of the whole issue, but you really want to take from those that break their back for those that want to coast and say that works for both of them? Sorry I can't reward things like lack of experience, lack of commitment nor those that just feel they deserve something they are not prepared to suffer for.

    • kenneth avery profile image

      Kenneth Avery 17 months ago from Hamilton, Alabama


      As they say, you "hit it out of the park," with this piece. Since you are a professional writer, me telling you how wonderful this piece is, may run the risk of being futile, but I will gamble for once. This was great.

      Loved the summation about progressives and liberals. Especially the point about the minimum wage.

      So now I know for sure that I am a progressive.

      Keep up the good work.

    • Kathleen Cochran profile image

      Kathleen Cochran 19 months ago from Atlanta, Georgia

      Some of this discussion reminds me of one of my nephews who has a BA in education but found he hated teaching. So he's working a minimum wage job. He says he absolutely will not work a job that "sells his soul" for the profit of the business. But he has no hesitation to live at his parents and let them feed him in his 30s. My quetion is: What does selling your soul look like to you? Most of us started out in jobs we weren't crazy about in order to be self-sufficient. With luck and hard work we moved out of those jobs and into more fulfilling work. Nobody gets that dream job right off the bat. What all this has to do with progressive v liberal, I can't say!

    • Shyron E Shenko profile image

      Shyron E Shenko 19 months ago from Texas

      Bravo Tess, I like all that you say in your last post, my problem was that I needed to keep a roof over my family's head and put food in our bellies.

      I had one hubber criticize me for accepting my Social Security and said that I was living off the government, but I would bet he does not turn down his SS unless he did not earn any, in which case he would be jealous of anyone who did.