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The Carrier Deal: The Devil's in the Details

Updated on February 23, 2017

This is my second and final article with political commentary on the 2016 presidential election and subsequent events.

A few days ago, a friend confided to me that she was pleased with the way in which President-elect Donald Trump "bullied the CEO of United Technologies Corporation (Carrier's parent company), into keeping over 1,000 jobs in Indiana and not relocating them to Mexico. Two business titans coming head to head, and Trump won," she said. Because of my background in business, she asked for my opinion.

I'm hardly an expert on the types of business incentives that involved Carrier. But after researching a couple of details about the deal and giving the matter some thought, I came up with the following:

First of all, comparing The Trump Organization to UTC is like comparing a Toyota to a Ferrari. Moreover, it is doubtful that a CEO like Gregory Hayes could be intimidated by Donald Trump, regardless of his winning the election. Pushing the smoke and mirrors aside, in all likelihood it was the other way around.

Carrier was purchased by UTC in the late 70's in a hostile takeover. It is a wholly owned subsidiary. UTC is a global corporation, not privately held, and trades on a US stock exchange; meaning, stockholders want a healthy return on their investment. This American conglomerate enjoys substantial profits, and affords platinum parachutes and millions in salaries/bonuses to their executives. In light of the recent Carrier decision, we can't help but wonder if those with such vested interests are willing to take a few pennies less on every dollar out of the goodness of their hearts in order to keep 800 jobs north of the border. UTC still plans to relocate 1,300 other jobs from Indiana to Mexico, where the pay scale is infinitely lower. Will this move help defray the tens of millions in costs of keeping the 800 at the Carrier furnace plant? Will any of these remaining jobs be moved, after all, in the "not too distant future"? Unquestionably, their accountants have already crunched the numbers utilizing the various scenarios. And UTC execs would recognize in a nanosecond the positive PR bump by keeping jobs in Indy -- if only temporarily.

Vice President-elect Pence and President-elect Trump during a tour of a Carrier plant in Indianapolis.
Vice President-elect Pence and President-elect Trump during a tour of a Carrier plant in Indianapolis.


Here are a few points surrounding the alleged Carrier deal to consider:

The 7 Million Dollar Incentive Package

We understand Indiana's economic development agency has yet to actually approve the deal, which grants $7 million in taxpayer money to Carrier over a period of ten years. It appears Trump and Pence afforded "corporate welfare" to a corporation that doesn't need it. According to Tedd Man of the Wall Street Journal, "In exchange for the tax breaks, Carrier will invest $16 million in its facilities in the state." This is interesting since tax incentives often take the form of investments in technology/manufacturing equipment to automate the assembly process, as long as the organization isn't required to maintain a certain level of their work force. (It would be nice to see the details of this agreement in writing.) Whether we like it or not, advances in automation are the hallmarks of the 21st century in replacing human labor.

Trump's Campaign Promises

Did Trump/Pence guarantee the easement of environmental and other regulations which would boost UTC's bottom line? (In the past, UTC has come under scrutiny concerning the level of toxic emissions released into the atmosphere during production.) What about Trump's pledge of lowering the corporate tax rate as part of his pricey reform plan -- a proposal that will not pass through the Republican-controlled Congress without substantial modifications? In the final analysis, both of these questions are irrelevant. These highly touted, oft repeated campaign promises will either come to full fruition over the next few years, or not. They were scarcely intended, solely, for the benefit of UTC.

The Call for Tariffs

During his campaign, the President-elect promised the electorate that Carrier (UTC) and other exporters of American jobs would be hit with hefty tariffs. Barring an Act of Congress, Mr. Trump is somewhat handcuffed by certain laws already in place involving percentages, timeframes, industries, circumstances, etc. UTC could pass tariff costs down to consumers, and/or be "forced" to send even more jobs south of the border or to other LCC's (lower cost countries). Imposing tariffs on countries such as China, Mexico and the shredding NAFTA, would induce a trade war. Further, it would damage the net inflow of billions of dollars of foreign investments into the US.

The F-35
The F-35

This brings us to one of UTC's biggest customers: The Pentagon. Were billions of dollars in future defense contracts (either directly or implied), threatened or sweetened as part of the deal offered by someone who has yet to set foot in the Oval Office? Here is where the troubling, intrusive reality of the so-called "deal" truly comes into play. That is one powerful ace-in-the-hole for UTC to use should this be the case. And they can play it whenever they wish. Mr. Trump assures us the subject of military contracts never came up during his discussion with Hayes. In light of the facts and some of Trump's wildly disingenuous assertions in the past, I have my doubts.

All politicians lie; some, far more stridently than others. Vice President-elect Pence recently attended the Broadway theater production of "Hamilton" with his daughter and her cousins. Upon hearing some boos and cheers directed at him, he remarked to the kids, "That's what freedom sounds like." I could have hugged the man for his Lincolnesque comment. But freedom also demands facts. Unless we want the truth, demand it, and take the time to run it through the tires, we run the risk of losing sight of it altogether...and our freedom in the bargain.

Source Quotation

Mann, T. (2016, December 2). Carrier Will Receive $7 Million in Tax Breaks to Keep Jobs in Indiana. The Wall Street Journal

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    • Alternative Prime profile image

      Alternative Prime 4 months ago from > California

      It's simply AMAZING what can be accomplished when the most "CROOKED, Corrupt & Ingnorant" Perspective President of the U.S. throws "Buckets of OUR Tax Money" in the face of a Greedy Corporate CEO who is already "WALLOWING in Billions" ~ What happened to Trump's "BIG Winning DEALz 4 America" because this is a Gigantic LOSER & "WE the PEOPLE" get stuck with his Monsterous TAX Bill of MILLIONs as the consequence ~

      United Technologies is a MULTI-Billion Corporation with BILLIONs in Sales, BILLIONs in Revenues & BILLIONs in NET Profit, they should be PAYING the United States for the Priviledge of using this country to become filthy rich not the other way around, the last thing on this endangered planet they need is MORE MONEY ~ But unfortunately if GOD Forbid Trump does become OUR President, & he is able to actually keep his PROMISES of Corporate Enrichment, what a Terrible & Perhaps Unlawful Precedent he's setting ~

      BRIBERY, Extortion, REWARDING GREED, call it what U will but this is Appalling but expected from an incompetent failed negotiator ~

    • mckbirdbks profile image

      mckbirdbks 4 months ago from Emerald Wells, Just off the crossroads,Texas

      Hello Genna - You note 'the accountants' would have penciled this all out. It occurred to me that 'the people' do not have an accountant at the table during these types of deals. We are supposed to, but only business is represented now. I suspect we are in for many bad deals to come.

      For many reasons thanks for publishing this commentary. As the media is in the cross hairs of the new administration.

      (I sense at least one of your commenters is angry.)

    • tsmog profile image

      Tim Mitchell 4 months ago from Escondido, CA

      Thanks for your insight.

    • Cyndi10 profile image

      Cynthia B Turner 4 months ago from Georgia

      Thank you for the research into this. Everyone should do at least some research and fact checking before lauding something or someone as good or bad. Thoughtfully well written. Take care.

    • billybuc profile image

      Bill Holland 4 months ago from Olympia, WA

      Here's all I know about this deal, and you summed it up perfectly when you said "all politicians lie: Trump will make this look like he spearheaded it and he's the great savior. I suspect what we have heard is only about 10% truth and 90% bull, and I'm not siding against Trump. I would have said the same thing about Clinton.

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      Outstanding and insightful!

      Cyndi10, if everyone had researched a year ago, Trump would not be president! Oh well!

    • savvydating profile image

      Yves 4 months ago

      Good article. I doubt that Trump will strong arm every company who practices free trade. It really isn't feasible. More importantly, he will lower tax rates for small businesses and make an effort to incentivize companies to stay in the United States through reasonable means. At least, I hope so.

      I personally believe the Carrier deal was about keeping an election promise. That promise means a great deal to those workers who can breathe easy, and enjoy a Happy Christmas. Furthermore, the reason this was accomplished was because Pence is the governor of Indiana. In any event, Carrier will still move oversees whenever they choose, but not in Indiana, unless they want to lose the incentives.

      All of that being said, Trump is a business man. He does know what creates incentives for businesses and what does not. I cannot imagine that he does not also understand free trade since he has utilized foreign companies in his own businesses. If he makes life too difficult for large business, they will sue. Our legal system provides more checks and balances than does our government sometimes.

      Anyway, my point is, let's wait and see about Predident Elect Trump. That is not to say we should not remain vigilant. And we should not forget that Obama offered zero reasons for companies to remain in the United States. A concerted effort on the part of a new president would help all American workers, but I do pray these " deals" will be done properly.

    • Alternative Prime profile image

      Alternative Prime 4 months ago from > California

      dianetrotter ~ "Delusional Donald" is not president yet ~ He has several LEGAL Obstacles which could conceivably BLOCK him from entering our White House ~ His "CONFLICTs" are Innumerable, his Corruption is Unprecedented, his ANTI-American behavior Illegal & his Ineptitude is ASTOUNDINGLY Disturbing ~

      Considering the "Electoral COLLEGE" was designed explicitly to PREVENT a Deranged, Psychologically Disturbed Meglomaniac like Trump from getting the keys to OUR Oval Office, it might be considered "Gross Negligence" for the "EC" to actually vote for him so don't be surprised if he's REJECTED on December 19, 2016 ~ Let's see what happens with this & Jill Stein's Patriotic RECOUNTs which could conceivably UNCOVER even more Trump Atrocities ~

      This "Special Person" hasn't even begun his tenure and he's already REFUSED Essential TASKs such as READING Daily Briefings, he continues "Juvenile WHINING & Crying" via Twitter, & believe it or not, CHINA has Filed a FORMAL Complaint against Trump for his Indefensible "Mal-Feasance & Negligence" by accepting a call from Taiwan where he has Personal Business DEALINGs ~ UNACCEPTIBLE to AMERICANs ~

      We here in the WESTERN Region of the U.S. will always make it perfectly understandable that we REJECT this CON-Man & his Radical ANTI-American Agenda, and if CHINA is Proded by this ANGRY Old Man into a RESPONSE against the USA, we'd like to think they would bypass the Western Region which Denounces him ~

    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Fuller 4 months ago from Southern Illinois

      Genna, I'm so glad you researched this ' deal. ' Since I live on the In. and Il. line, I've watched this faithfully. And its on the nightly news. The talking heads are saying that Carrier per se, is peanuts compared to the federal contracts awarded to UTC, plus other companies in In. are going to use the same tactic to line their pockets if not given the same ' deal ' I fear it will explode in every state. The only way you can make the greedy happy is to pile on more incentives. Our only salvation is for the recounting process to show more votes were cast for Hillary, thus the Electoral College would declare her winner. I seriously doubt that will happen. Thank you for this most informative hub. Hugs...

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      always exploring, It may be worth keeping Carrier as a loser as long as they get lucrative Pentagon contracts.

    • savvydating profile image

      Yves 4 months ago

      You don't know that, Diane and Genna. Deals are made all the time. Have you forgotten about the Wall Steet, GM and main stream media bailouts? Where was your outrage then?

      Carrier could still make greater profits if they moved to Mexico. $754 per worker in Indiana is not particularly lucrative. Clinton would have sent even more companies abroad, which means less work for Americans.

      Seriously, you guys should get a heart and have some goodwill for Christmas. Okay, I'm done. I am the odd man out, but I'm good with that. It builds character. Merry Christmas, ladies!

    • mckbirdbks profile image

      mckbirdbks 4 months ago from Emerald Wells, Just off the crossroads,Texas

      I didn't really see any outrage in this presentation. Some facts, yes, that I had not heard elsewhere. (Makes me question my source of news. As we all should.)

      President Obama did think it wise to save the auto industry.

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      mckbirdbks, Thank you! savvy, DT wants to run America like he runs his business. I know that becaue he tells us all the time. He's rich. He knows how to make deals. He is the only one that can save America. He (without any congressional approval) is going to levy 35% tariffs on good coming back into the US. He is going to take us back to the stone ages of assembly line work to say he got jobs for people. Technology is the current (not even new) frontier and that's where the labor force should be focused and trained.

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Alternative Prime: Thanks so much for your visit and thoughtful comment. I'm sorry if I upset you in any way; that wasn't my intent. You have expressed feelings that are echoed by many. I only hope we can try to come together in working out solutions to our problems. :-)

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Mckbirdbks: Hi Mike. Sorry I'm late in responding, but I got caught up in trying to finish my Christmas cards. You've brought up such a good point about the media caught in the crosshairs. That is so true! As always, I appreciate your visits, support and thoughtful comments. I hope you are enjoying your Sunday.

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      tsmog: You are welcome...and thank you. :-)

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Cyndi10: Thank you, Cyndi...and I couldn't agree more. It takes time to do the research, and to "run things through the tires," (it's a challenge for me to find the time as well). But I think it's also an exercise we need to try to incorporate into part of our lives.

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      @Billybuc: Hello Bill. You are so right. It doesn't make any difference who is in charge...we need to examine what's happening under the lid, so to speak, and not be afraid to question things. Happy Sunday, my friend. :-)

    • savvydating profile image

      Yves 4 months ago

      Mike, just to clarify, I did not say the article expressed outrage. I stayed that the article is good. I was actually referring to some of the comments. I should have said, some comments here express cynicism and some outrage. Alternative Prime, for example. Diane, by now you know that I have had my own reservations about Trump. I will be watching too, but I do not share your pessimism. I prefer to see what happens in the future. Finally, my wishes for you to have a Merry Christmas celebration were and are sincere.

    • mckbirdbks profile image

      mckbirdbks 4 months ago from Emerald Wells, Just off the crossroads,Texas

      Savvy, I stand corrected. You did not say there was outrage in the article. We are all watching to see how, 'America is moved in a different direction.'

    • savvydating profile image

      Yves 4 months ago

      You're a good man, Mike. Thank you treating me like a human being. I appreciate it.

    • FlourishAnyway profile image

      FlourishAnyway 4 months ago from USA

      This man is so corrupt and such a puffed up buffoon. Carrier is one company. You've highlighted well how the deal wasn't artful or advantageous for America at all. Now what will he do about Ford, then the next company? He's already way over his head.

    • profile image

      Sanxuary 4 months ago

      It was a propaganda victory and nothing else. 3 out of 4 jobs at carrier will still be in Mexico, The 7 million dollars could be way more then that in 10 years. Is it out of the tax payers pocket, or paying no taxes at all? No one knows the details. Never even asked are the details on those who work there. Is it minimum wage? Is it full time? Even if they saved their jobs it could be most of them are looking for a better job somewhere else and could careless if carrier went to Mexico. Keeping jobs here is only a band aid. This is no victory for anyone but exercise for those who enjoy clapping.

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Saavydating: Good morning. Thanks so much for your comments. I'm not sure where to begin in response, but will give it a try. :-)

      The level of manufacturing jobs in the US sank like the Titanic following the 2008 financial crisis - as did the economy. President Obama inherited a nightmare. The level of these jobs has been climbing steadily ever since, but we are still about 300,000 jobs shy of when he took office. One of the huge offsets to these losses were created by revamping the existing loan programs as part of the ARRA to encourage renewable energy projects, including solar initiatives. (This is just one example of job gains.)

      Could we be doing more to encourage manufacturing stateside? Absolutely. Some companies have realized the benefits of reshoring rather than offshoring manufacturing, but it depends on the industry. LCC's have their upside and downside. A few examples of the downside are insufficient IP protections, shipping delays, weather disasters, etc.

      The great boon of the assembly line worker is waning and has been for decades. And it's not due solely to cheaper, offshore labor. Automation and ways in which to streamline operational systems and increase productivity to lower labor costs are among the trademarks of the 21st century. I have clients who explore these possibilities, continually. President Obama is keenly aware of this and the necessity of wooing companies, stateside. His efforts include the NNMI initiative which was modeled after Germany's Fraunhofer Institutes, the auto industry. etc. There's much more, but I don't have the room or time to go into all of the detail. It would require another hub. Obama has also stressed, repeatedly, of the need of specialized training to prepare workers to meet the changes of the new century and remain competitive.

      We don't know what the various caveats are to the Carrier agreement. Ten years is a long time, and we would need to see the agreement in writing.

      Donald Trump's rhetoric belies an in-depth understanding of existing trade agreements and global trade as a whole. And he has already begun to strong arm companies. For example, threatening those that leave this country with a massive 35% tariff on products sold to the US. As I stated in my comment, these costs would be passed down to us, the consumer, and create a substantial loss of the American business to foreign competitors. It's happened before. I don't think Trump can pass this tariff without the approval of Congress, which I doubt will happen.

      I also think the outrage over the WS bailout should be focused on what created the crisis in the first place. I suspect if more Americans understood would actually happened, they would be quite angry, alarmed, and more vigilant.

      I couldn't agree with you more, Saavy, about our need to be vigilant. But this begins with our understanding of the reality of the world. We shouldn't be satisfied with vague generalizations as answers. We have to try to be better informed, and demand transparency as opposed to having information, hidden, sealed, or parsed out to us on a "need to know basis." And I truly believe we do this together, calmly, rationally, and not be manipulated into the "us versus them" gimmick used by so many politicians that only spark division and anger. We have such possibilities. :-)

      I hope I haven't rambled on too much; I wrote this in a bit of a hurry. Have a Merry Christmas!

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      AlwaysExploring: Hello Ruby. You are right about the suspicions surrounding Carrier deal. We'll have to wait and see what happens, my friend. Thanks so much for your visit and comments. It's always a pleasure to see you.

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      DianeTrotter: Hello Diane. Thank you for the visit and comments. When we take a hard look at the numbers, common sense dictates that defense contracts played a role in their decision. And you are spot on about the impact of technology. Automation in manufacturing is, in a sense, another phase of the Industrial Revolution.

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Mckbirdbks: Thank you, my friend. :-)

    • Alternative Prime profile image

      Alternative Prime 4 months ago from > California

      Hi Genna ~ No, U didn't UPSET me at all ~ I enjoyed reading your well structured article & simply decided to comment ~ NO Doubt, I do get MOTIVATED when I Write or TALK ~

      And I'll take this opportunity to enhance my previous thought if I could ~ My main point is how ill-conceived & juvenile Trump approached Carrier, which as U know is a Subsidiary of American TITAN United Technologies ~ This is EXACTLY what Bernie Sanders, & Jill Stein among others have WARNED us about, a MASSIVE Shift or "TRANSFER" of OUR WEALTH from the Middle Class, Workers, Poverty Stricken, Income Challenged, Students & our Precious Senior Citizens, into the hands of GREED Driven WALL Street Corporations that are already Filthy RICH ~ It's UNNACCEPTABLE ~

      Giving Special Tax BREAKs & other Monetary Incentives to this kind of company that already RAKEs in BILLIONs is an Obscene Abuse of their POWER, while the same Republicans like Mike Pence & Medicare "BUTCHER" Paul Ryan OBSTRUCT Minimum Wage Increases & will soon begin to PESTER Trump if GOD Forbid he makes it into our WHITE House, for him to start DISMANTLING Medicare & Social Security & of course STRIP Millions of their essential health care ~ UNACCEPTABLE ~

      P.S. ~ To the Commentor that mentioned President Obama "SAVING the Auto-INDUSTRY ~ YES, he and fellow DEMOCRATs did fight hard to "SAVE Auto WORKERs" because most were on the verge of "BANKRUPTCY" & OUT of Business which would have "Negatively IMPACTED" MILIONs of American Jobs ~ This DIRE Situation was the END Result of George W BUSHS" Failed "TRICKLE Down" Economic Policies which we are about to get SLAPPED with once again ~ No Comparison to United Technologies which is a THRIVING Profitable American Company that decided to EXPORT Jobs for the sole purpose of GREED ~ They don't need TAX Breaks or Incentives, they need to somehow someway become "PROUD Patriotic Americans" instead of ANTI-American "WEALTH Hoarders" ~

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Flourishanyway: Hi there. Well, it seems that Donald is threatening Ford with that 35% tariff. Mr. Trump is as predictable as the sunrise. There isn't a week that goes by when I don't hope that he surprises me. I hope he succeeds in formulating decisions, policies and programs that actually benefit the nation. But I fear I'm being naive. :-) All we can do is wait and see what happens down the line. Thanks so much for the comment.

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Sanxuary: I appreciate your comment.

      The letter Carrier addressed to their employees outlines it fairly well..."Good news for some; not so good for others." "Not so good for for others" falls pretty flat, but that's part of their standard PR.

      I'm not sure what jobs are available to employees that are not being terminated, other than they plan to relocate jobs associated with the fan cool manufacturing lines at the factory. Those who lost their jobs will be able to relocate/apply for jobs at UTC locations in other parts of the country. Given the rate with which UTC is moving jobs to Mexico, I don't anticipate there will be many to choose from. The USW (United Steel Workers Union) will definitely be involved. I'm also concerned for the older workers who have worked in the steel industry for 30-35 years as this is all they know; they will have a harder time finding work. Part of the severance package includes some specialized training.

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      Savvy, I'm sorry I was not trying to be pessimistic. I was speaking to the reality of the nature of job needed for the current climate. Those who lost jobs feel they knew their jobs well and they did. The requirements these days are for people to be open to doing different things in a variety of ways. A good friend of mine lost a job running a mainframe for Sara Lee. She described the process. I told her that they obviously don't want batch processing anymore. We went from computer systems that covered large, ice cold rooms to desktops to conducting business from cellphones. I'm 66 but I want to learn something new every day. I'm dangerous since I've learned to tweet. Smiling over here Savvy!

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      HLN News - Amazon is working on a new checkout system for grocery stores. Pick up your groceries and walk out. No lines. News flash: Checkers will not be necessary. Predicted loss in income of over 3 milliono dollars.

      There are already driverless cars. What will that do for transportation jobs?

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Hi Dianne. Thank you for those comments. One of my clients developed a SW program for Amazon.com 3rd-party sellers. (And they own the IP.) What this SW does is monitor inventory levels, reports which products are selling and aren't; sales volumes, etc. Of course, this provides better management reporting and reduces overhead. We can't chastise creative innovation any more than we can punish man for inventing the wheel.

      What has gotten out of control, and was never in control, is corporate greed. I am a firm believer that capitalism works. Greed doesn't. And therein lies part of our problem.

      I was so impressed with your comment: "I want to learn something new every day." That is a wonderful philosophy to embrace. Merry Christmas. :-)

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      I meant to add in my above comment to Savvy and Sanxuary: Those workers who have worked in the steel industry for 25-35 years who are older. These are the people we have to take care of in some way. I would have been more impressed with the deal (and Carrier and UTC) if they had made the severance package far more substantial. They can afford it.

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      Merry Christmas to you too!

    • savvydating profile image

      Yves 4 months ago

      Genna, I definitely agree with you regarding the 35% tariff on products sold to the US. The consumers would end up flipping the bill. Trump's tax incentives really need to be more balanced, over-all, if he is going to successfully level the playing field for everyone. Furthermore, I like the idea of a good severance package, at least for the older workers who have been with Carrier most of their lives. (I have not checked into that particular issue yet.) Anyway, we will all wait and see what happens next.

      And Diane, I hear what you are saying!

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Billybuc: It appears that what you predicted in your comment was spot on, Bill: United Steelworkers 1999 President Chuck Jones told the Washington Post he hoped Trump would explain at a Dec. 1 meeting that 550 of the Carrier jobs weren't saved. It was not the 1,350 Trump first promised to save or the 1,100, he bragged about saving, or 800 jobs that were saved. The number was closer to 730.

      “But he got up there,” Jones said, “and, for whatever reason, lied his ass off.”

      “Trump and Pence, they pulled a dog and pony show on the numbers,” Jones said. “I almost threw up in my mouth.”

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Savvy: Thank you. Training for the 55 year-old will be more difficult; and I am afraid of the age discrimination they may encounter as well in the job hunt. I worry about them...and their families.

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Alternative: You've brought up some valid points. The Catch-22 is that without the corporation and the power of investment banks, Wall Street, etc., the world would, in all probability, starve. And we can't ignore the influence of stockholders, who come from different walks of life. They want to see healthy returns or they will invest somewhere else. It's all about profits and competition.

      Members of the Middle Class who have not left this category due to upward mobility or retirement are caught in the crosshairs of greed and global change -- not to mention the cutback effects of the financial crisis of 2008, a virtual Tsunami on many fronts. (There are assemblers at Ford Motor plants who can't make enough to keep their families off welfare.) Companies want to keep more cash equity. And the cost of manufacturing is also on the rise - along with everything else -- including safety programs, worker's comp and liability insurance, and so on.

      We must invest in training...better training, and a lot more of it, in small businesses and practicable, promising startups to encourage more hiring.

    • Alternative Prime profile image

      Alternative Prime 4 months ago from > California

      Well Genna, I only have a few questions ~ How Many BILLIONs does United Technologies want before it finally "CONVERTs" from a GREED Driven Enterprise to a Patriotic Company that cares about American Workers ?? ~ When does "SHIFTING OUR Wealth" to WALL Street END ?? It already "OWNs & Controls" nearly ALL of OUR Assets ~ When does the "CORPORATE Extortion" END ??

      The Corporate Mantra ~ "GIVE US MORE MILLIONS / BILLIONs of Tax-Payer Money or we'll PUNISH U by Ex-Patriating JOBS & Assets ~ In REALITY, Many Corporations Act more like HOSTILE Foreign Enemies of the United States than Patriotic Entities ~

      EVERYONE should go checkout United Technologies most recent Balance SHEETs & Accounting DOCs & then comment on whether or not they deserve MORE of OUR Taxpayer Dollars ~ I think you'll swiflty DISCOVER they should be PAYING the United States MILLIONs for the Distinct Priviledge & Unique Opportunity to RAKE In Millions / BILLIONs while their employees barely survive ~

    • mckbirdbks profile image

      mckbirdbks 4 months ago from Emerald Wells, Just off the crossroads,Texas

      Good morning Genna. Happy Wednesday. Just stopped by to bring you a cup of coffee. You are going to need it, as you contemplate answers to all the issues that face America.

    • always exploring profile image

      Ruby Jean Fuller 4 months ago from Southern Illinois

      Hello again Genna. It looks like Japan will be a major player in the near future. What's your take on that? I sure wish our little café in Emerald Wells was open, we could sit and talk over the prospect of the election count changing the outcome....Smiling..

    • Genna East profile image
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      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Mckbirdbks: Lol, Mike. Thanks for the coffee, my friend. I will climb down from my soapbox. :-)

      @AlwaysExploring: Hi there. Son? Well, right off the bat, his failed merger attempt with T-Mobile immediately comes to mind. Could this be what's hidden behind door number 1, 2 or 3 of the Son-Trump "negotiations"? It's a bit reminiscent of UTC and their defense contracts, also which had "nothing to do with their decision." Un huh.

      Son's invested billions here before, and in other countries, so this new proposal is hardly virgin territory for him. To be fair, I know little about the man from a character perspective, although I hear he's very smart, a bit of a kook -- and quite an ambitious, wealthy one -- who covets notoriety and power, much like our showman, President-elect Trump. I have a lot of questions but there isn't enough info out there yet to answer them. We'll have to wait and see what unfolds. I don't begrudge efforts that result in opportunities and jobs for Americans; but I still would like a lot more info, transparency and honesty from PET. If these are another form of "pay for play," so be it. But just be candid about it, and stop with the optics and BS bravado.

      I miss EWC too. :-)

      Have a great week.

    • Genna East profile image
      Author

      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Alternative: I'm not at all defending the status quo. :-)

    • Alternative Prime profile image

      Alternative Prime 4 months ago from > California

      It's not the "Status Quo" right now Genna, but if GOD Forbid Trump is Elected President on December 19, 2016 it will be if the Corporate Tax Rate is SLASHED from 35% DOWN to 15% which is Paul Ryan's SCHEME ~

      Guess who gets to "PICK Up" that MASSIVE Tab ?? Yup, U guessed it, "WE the PEOPLE" ~ BTW, the number JOBs Saved if indeed they do stay here has already been REDUCED to about 700 from 1,100 ~

    • mckbirdbks profile image

      mckbirdbks 4 months ago from Emerald Wells, Just off the crossroads,Texas

      Hello Genna. Here is another cup of coffee. I popped the cap on a 12 year old scotch and added a splash.

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      It looks like the government is getting into the taxing of free enterprise. It looks like Ryan and Trump are at odds on the 35% excise tax.

      A guy from Indiana was on CNN. He's ticked becaue the Carrier deal was not all it was purported to be. It seems Trump gets everyone to agree to let him take credit for his contribution without telling what people are giving up. He is also known to appropriation others' accomplishments to himself.

    • Genna East profile image
      Author

      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Alternative Prime: Good morning. The status quo I was referring to is that which exists, today. PET's original tax plan will never make it through Congress without modifications -- it is far too expensive. Still, the Republican proposal of tax rate reductions that overwhelmingly benefit those at the top is a tune we've all heard before -- despite Paul Ryan's rhetoric -- of supply-side economics from the days of Reagan and Bush, in order to pay for the trillions in costs. The largest demands on the budget: Entitlements and defense. Let's see where they make their spending cuts.

      What bothers me about Ryan is his fondness for Ayn Rand ("Atlas Shrugged") and her philosophy that self interest makes man a hero and altruism is destructive. When I think of Rand, the following quote from a famous film comes to mind: "Greed, for lack of a better word, is good; greed clarifies and cuts through and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit." (Gordon Gekko (Mike Douglas) from "Wall Street.")

      The article above addresses how 800 jobs were saved -- not 1,100. It was revealed a couple of days ago that the real number is closer to 730.

      Thanks for commenting and I hope you have a great week.

      Mckbirbks: Lol. Thanks, Mike, I needed that. :-)

      DianeTrotter: Hi Dianne. I agree. I was worried when Jones from the steelworkers union made those remarks about PET. I thought Trump would disparage him on Twitter, which is what he did, accusing him of "doing a terrible job." Unless he is leashed in some way, I fear that Trump tries to attack people into fear and submission. As David McGraw of the NY Times wrote to Trump's attorney regarding his threat of a lawsuit: If Mr. Trump feels that the "laws of this country forces us and those who would dare criticize him to stand silent or be punished, we welcome the opportunity to have a court set him straight."

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      I heard a suggestion this morning that Trump "lead by example." He should pull ALL of his businesses back into the US. So should Ivanka.

    • Alternative Prime profile image

      Alternative Prime 4 months ago from > California

      Well diane, if Trump does become President, a prospect which is looking "DIMMER" for him by the hour as the "Electoral COLLEGE" Votes on December 19, 2016, and many are REJECTING him which is EXACTLY what the U.S. Constitutions REQUIREs that they do, the ONLY Legal Remedy is for Trump to "DIVEST", which means SELL ALL Assets including RE Holdings, then deposit the proceeds into a Real "BLIND Trust" ~

      But let's see who the "Electoral COLLEGE" Votes for in about 10 days ~ If they VOTE 4 Hillary there will be no Legal or CONSTITUTIONAL Conflicts ~ If GOD Forbid they VOTE Trump, In CONFLICT of what the Constitution Requires, we will have LEGAL / Constitutional CRISIS Beginning Inauguration Day ~ The ELECTORAL COLLEGE was Specifically Created to "STOP" a Psychologically Deranged Immensly UNFIT & Unqualified individual like Trump from entering OUR White House ~ Let's see if the "SAFEGUARD" our Founders Established to PROTECT "WE the PEOPLE" is implemented ~

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      Alternative, you are hoping for a miracle of Godly proportions! If it happens, I'd like for the other choice to not be HRC. We will have to learn to deal with whomever it is!

    • Alternative Prime profile image

      Alternative Prime 4 months ago from > California

      Not a MIRACLE diane, OUR Founders Created the "ELECTORAL College" as a built in "SAFEGUARD" to protect us AGAINST Deranged, Unfit Candidates like Trump & those Electors are already Beginning to REJECT him as the REALITY of his Unstable, Unpredictable UNLAWFUL, Un-Constitutional & CHAOTIC Presidency Laced with WAR looms closer to REALITY ~

      In stark contrast, Hillary is a RATIONAL Sane Individual who would avoid WAR with CHINA & Iran, Understands the Presidency, would NOT Violate the CONSTITUTION from day one as Trump would, and unlike Trump, she's HIGHLY Qualified to do this ENORMOUS Job ~ She'd STUDY Daily Briefings as well, unlike Trump who wallows in PERVERTED Pleasure" by TWEETING Insults & ATTACKING American Workers ~ NOT Good, he's already a DISASTER ~

      Let's see what happens on December 19, 2016 ~ If the Electoral COLLEGE Safeguard" works as INTENDED, Trump will swiftly be REJECTED by Electors in about 10 days ~

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      OK Alternative! I will be watching!!!

    • dianetrotter profile image

      G. Diane Nelson Trotter 4 months ago from Fontana

      A recent study by McKinsey & Co. said that 45% of the tasks that U.S. workers are currently paid to perform can be automated by existing technology. That represents about $2 trillion in annual wages.

      http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/08/news/companies/car...

    • Nell Rose profile image

      Nell Rose 4 months ago from England

      I don't know much about American politics, but I do know that I was angry about those guys on stage harassing him. funnily enough I was on stage that week myself so could see it from that point of view. the idea of going to the front of the stage and having a go at someone was appalling! Entertainment and politics should not mix. interesting stuff though, nell

    • Genna East profile image
      Author

      Genna East 4 months ago from Massachusetts, USA

      Hi Nell. Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately, in the US, entertainment and politics do mix; especially concerning "entertainment news" in the media. Many have equated Trump's showman demeanor with reality television. Have a great weekend.

    • bravewarrior profile image

      Shauna L Bowling 4 months ago from Central Florida

      Eye opening and well-presented conversation, Genna.

    • profile image

      Genna East 4 months ago

      Thank you! All we can do is wait and see happens next.

    • Shyron E Shenko profile image

      Shyron E Shenko 6 weeks ago from Texas

      It is not what you say, but how you say it. trump took a fact that Carrier was going to do what they intended do and took the credit.

      Everyone should do the research just as you did, then they would know the truth.

      You did a fantastic job on this hub.

      Blessings and hugs

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