Conservative Vs. Progressive Issues and Policies


I would like to challenge any liberal progressives on HubPages to debate the issues based on merit. I will create a text module for each issue in question. I will append any submissions to me as opposing points of view and place them side by side for the readers to compare. There will be a poll at the end. Please provide feedback. Thanks.

- Aug. 2016

Public Schools (Progressive)

Progressive Solution proposal from Peoplepower73.

As a liberal, I don't care where you send your kids to school. Charter schools are great, but they require a close interaction between students teachers, and parents. They also require funding. Many of them get additional funding from the parents and donations. I don't think they would work in poverty stricken areas.

I can only speak for my state, California. We have a lottery that was supposed to fund our school system. In the beginning, it was great, but then the state went bankrupt. All the money was funneled to the state and to the mega salaries to the school administrators. The lottery is still in place, but the money does not trickle down to the kids and the teachers. My solution stop the rip-off to the teachers and the kids.

Public Schools

Our public schools, especially in the inner cities are not working. Kids are graduating without the basic knowledge of Reading Writing and Arithmetic. The Teacher's union, along with local politicians refuses any suggestions to improve the current system. All they want is more tax dollars. After years and years of the same thing, we are currently paying over $11,000 per year per student in America. Yet, our students are at best in the mediocre status among the industrial nations of the world. In a global economy, that is unacceptable. Conservatives believe we should allow parents to have choices. They should be offered the option of sending their kids to Charter schools or be given vouchers so that they can send their kids to alternative schools such as private or parochial school. This increased competition will incentivize the public schools to improve. Our children are our future.They deserve an opportunity to reach their dreams and a basic education.

Illegal Immigration (Progressive)

Progressive proposal from Peoplepower73.

President Obama's solution that was blocked by the supreme court because of a tie. (That is not supposed to happen in SCTUS). We should have 9 justices, but your conservatives buddies are holding out until after the election.

The case, United States v. Texas, No. 15-674, concerned a 2014 executive action by the president to allow as many as five million unauthorized immigrants who were the parents of citizens or of lawful permanent residents to apply for a program that would spare them from deportation and provide them with work permits. The program was called Deferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents, or DAPA.

The reason jobs are so low, is because of outsourcing of jobs by the big moneyed corporations and interests. It's all about their bottom line. If you ran a company, wouldn't you want your labor to be as cheap as possible? Trump is not going to be able to bring jobs back. He will have to fight the corporations and their bottom line. The facts are that Obama has a zero sum game for Mexico. He has deported as many as he as allowed in.

Illegal Immigration Reform

Our immigration system and border patrol is not working. Every year, millions of people come here illegally, either by over-staying their VISA or sneaking across our borders. Once they are here, they are granted all sorts of priviledges and must be given a fair hearing by our courts before being deported. Conservatives believe that in order for us to be a country, we must have borders, language, and culture. People should immigrate here according to our laws. They need to apply, and be tested for diseases and after a background check process, be able to come here legally and be give a green card status. This is how immigration is supposed to work. In order to stem the migration of illegal immigrants, we need to secure our southern borders, and track all VISA holders. People who break our laws should be deported back to their home country.

There are 3 main reasons to control our borders.

1. Economic- Jobs for Americans and our teenagers, 93 million out of work.

2. Health - to prevent communicable diseases from coming here.

3. Terrorism - Stop terrorists that are trying to come here like ISIS.

Healthcare (Progressive)

Progressive proposal from Peoplepower73.

The reason Obama Care (ACA) is over 2.000 pages is because it is a body of laws to regulate insurance companies, service providers, and computer infrastructure. It is not a simple insurance policy. The conservatives 19 page plan is nothing more than a proposal. As far as letting insurance companies become free market to increase competition does not take into account greed and corruption. They will all raise premiums, regardless of competition. Again, it is the bottom line they are concerned about.

Obama's initial plan was a "single payer" system, but it was shot down by your republican congress. Obama had to compromise in order for ACA to be passed Here is how it works: Single-payer healthcare is a system in which the state, rather than private insurers, pays for all healthcare costs.[1] Single-payer systems may contract for healthcare services from private organizations (as is the case in Canada) or may own and employ healthcare resources and personnel (as is the case in the United Kingdom).

Jack: Here is a reality check: All candidates can pledge any wondrous things they want on their first days in office. But there are three factors at work: (1) The mix of republican to democrats in the house and the senate; (2) The big corporations and big moneyed interest; (3) Lobbyists. This is far too complex to describe in a reply, but I have written a hub about this.

Healthcare Reform

Conservatives propose the repeal of the current ACA. It was a bad bill passed by a one party-controlled Congress. It was a 2000+ pages of bureacratic monstrosity that was destined to fail.

Conservatives do not believe we need a comprehensive bill. It should be simplified and passed in several pieces that address the current problems.

One such piece should make sure people with existing pre-conditions would be able to get healthcare coverage.

The primary change would be to allow insurance companies to compete across State lines. More competition will lead to lower cost and improved coverage.

Another change would expand Medicaid coverage to some who cannot afford basic health insurance. This is a better alternative to the current ACA plan. The infrastructure and administration is already in place. Just allowing more people to qualify would automatically give more people access to healthcare at lower burden to the tax payers.

Remove the 30 hour limit for workers and the 50 workers cap for small businesses. This is the one part that has killed job creation and have forced many workers to the P/T worker category.

Crime and Violence (Progressive Solution)


Crime and Violence in Inner Cities

Conservatives believe in law and order and that applies to all citizens equally. The high incidence of shootings and drugs in our inner cities are unacceptable. It is possible to reduce crime and violence in large cities. We have done it in NYC under mayor Giuliani. He instituted tough policing and stop and frisk to remove illegal guns and weapons from the streets. He cracked down on petty crimes which is behind the broken windows theory of policing. All this has left NYC better and more prosperous.

Solution for Chicago:

1. Bring in the National guards on a temporary bases to stabilize the situation.

2. Institute tough policing (stop and frisk) to confiscate illegal guns.

3. Crack down on gang violence and illegal drug dealers.

4. Institute PAL and other activities to bridge police and local youths. Give them an opportunity to play sports and learn a skill.

5. Improve local schools by firing the Board of Ed. and revamp from top to bottom.

A Non Scientific Poll

Which policies and ideas do you agree with most?

  • Progressive/Liberal
  • Conservative
  • Neither
See results without voting

© 2016 Jack Lee

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Comments 20 comments

Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 2 months ago from Rural Arizona

I wish you had limited liberal comments to fact based only comments.

But then you probably wouldn't get any comments from the liberals because they don't deal in facts.

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

I got the idea for this hub while debating another hubber. I'm hoping he would join me in this approach.

Old Poolman profile image

Old Poolman 2 months ago from Rural Arizona

Jack I think this is an excellent idea if anyone would respond with point by point arguments as to why their ideas were better. Unfortunately this rarely happens and it ends up with childish name calling rather than positive feedback.

Dont Taze Me Bro profile image

Dont Taze Me Bro 2 months ago from Tazeland Islands

I think this is a great idea Jack! The only problem I see is that this really isn't conservative vrs. progressive, it's your idea of conservative vrs some progressive's (not even because you can't really know if the hubber is a progressive) idea of progressive.

Be that as it may I guess it is as close as you can come on HP to making a comparison. Liberals believe their policies are superior, I don't see why they wouldn't want to flock to compare their pros to our cons. As a conservative if it were a progressive putting forth this challenge I would jump at the opportunity to compare their propaganda to the truth.

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

DTMB, you might be right. It is my brand of Conservatism vs. any other political solution proposals. I never liked labels but in this imperfect world, we have to settle on some conventions or else nothing will be ever accomplished or resolved. My point in proposing this forum is to expose the Conservative thinking to an otherwise ignorant public. They have been deceived by media into thinking Conservatives are old white men who wants to go back to the stone age...

Dont Taze Me Bro profile image

Dont Taze Me Bro 2 months ago from Tazeland Islands

Yeah, I think it is a good endeavor you are undertaking as are all conservative endeavors to educate but just the fact that you describe a section of the public you are trying to reach as ignorant and so easily deceived by the media, ignorant people have no interest in ferreting out the truth, that's why they are ignorant...good luck with that.

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

DTMB, I didn't say they are ignorant, just mis-guided and deceived by a dishonest media. In my conversation with some progressives, they are intelligent but they seem to have a false impressive about conservatives meanwhile having trust in big government to solve the problems of society. I can only point out their failings and hope to convince a few that government is the problem in many cases and not the solution.

peoplepower73 profile image

peoplepower73 2 months ago from Placentia California

Jack: I have a pretty good idea, you are baiting me. The problem with your format is that I would have to copy your text and parse every sentence to reply to it properly. I think what you are really asking is what is the difference between conservative values and belief systems and liberals values and belief systems? It is not an argument just about the issues that you have listed. It's a comparison of the different mind sets of the different ideologies. Here is a list based on the many forums I have participated in and my own experiences. Feel free to add more to each side as you see fit.

Conservatives beliefs include, but are not limited to the following:

* Smaller government

* Free market enterprise

* Deregulation

* Privatizing of institutions

* Conventional traditions

* Strong military

* Self protection

* Cutting taxes

* Self sufficiency without out government intervention

Conservatives fears whether true or imagined include, but are not limited to the following:

* Having their property infringed upon by governemnt or alien forces

* Large government

* Rapid change to their domain as a result of cultural change

* Paying higher taxes for things they don't believe in

* Obama care

* Nanny State

* Tyranny

* Socialism

* Liberal ideals

Liberals beliefs include, but are not limited to the following:

* Government that provides for those services that are better served by government than privatization

* Strong military

* Promoting the general welfare

* Rapid change as a result of changing technology and culture

* Paying taxes

* Regulations to prevent greed and corruption.

* Social programs for those who are in need of help

Liberals fear the following whether true or imagined, include but are not limited to the following:

* Deregulation, especially of financial institutions

* Privatizing institutions that work better by the government

* Laws and traditions that are outdated for modern times

* Slow change when rapid change is better

* Conservative ideals

* Government infringement on the rights of individuals for political purposes

* Wasting of government resources by constant congressional investigations

Dont Taze Me Bro profile image

Dont Taze Me Bro 2 months ago from Tazeland Islands

I'm with you on that, but see liberals don't think with their intelligence they use their hearts. Liberal leaders with deceitful and wicked hearts enlist their targeted subjects, minorities, the uninformed and the poor by appealing to their hearts not their heads. Discerning intelligence, if anything, is an obstacle to their agendas.

That's why, no matter how many years their policies have failed and how terribly, their excuse is that their intentions were good and the un-discerning buy it. Look at what liberal policies have done to the black population for 50 years, their plight now worse than ever after the farsical war on poverty, welfare with no incentives and government handouts. Yet they vote nearly 100% for more of the same every time. No discernment there.

Maybe some liberal will read this, I hope, and engage your challenge to prove me wrong if they are so intelligent, I doubt it very much.

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

peoplepower73, you are miss understanding my hub. I am not listing conservative vs. progressive beliefs per se. I am seeking solution proposals for the various problems that we face. I want to address each problem from the conservative vs. progressive proposals and let the readers decide which is a better or more viable way. No need to parse my solutions or proposals, just present yours in the comment section and I will cut and paste them next to my proposals. A side by side view.

Dont Taze Me Bro profile image

Dont Taze Me Bro 2 months ago from Tazeland Islands

PP, interesting, your list of conservative's fears is a list of failed policies and programs, that's a fact. Instead of casting it as conservative's fears as if conservatives are paranoid you should simply say, liberal policies that have been proven failures.

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

DTMB, I would't consider PP's list as policies... I would like PP to just take one issues and present the progressive solution. This way, we can contrast and discuss in detail why one is superior over another...and what has been tried and failed...It seems we are stuck in a quagmire and can't make any progress because one side or another just refuse to look at the results and consider alternatives.

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

PP, I received your comments and will work on putting your ideas into my hub. I may do some simple edits to make it more presentable.

I did not meant for this to be a debate or critique of the proposals, just to present both sides and let the readers make up their own minds.

If you wish, we could continue to use the comment section for debate of the proposals in detail. I found the HP forum a little hard to follow especially if it drags on for many threads... I prefer to focus on one idea and debate each over a short time. No format is perfect for what I want to happen and just make the best of what we have. I am glad HP allow me to do this.

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

PP, I've appended your solutions to the hub above. Please let me know if you want to make any changes...I cited your user name at the top of each section.

peoplepower73 profile image

peoplepower73 2 months ago from Placentia California

Dont Taze Me Bro:

Right wing propaganda appeals to your head not your heart. It is very apparent you have been brainwashed by it just from the level of apparent intelligence you think you might have. You have been on HP for three years and have one published hub. Yet I see you trolling these forums and questions all the time. If you are so correct about your opinions, why don't you grow a pair and write something instead of insulting and criticizing others work and what you think is their lack of intelligence. Show us what you got. For you to transfer the fear from one party to another shows your lack of intelligence. It is not fear in the sense of emotional fear. It is like the fear of having your guns confiscated by the government.

peoplepower73 profile image

peoplepower73 2 months ago from Placentia California

Jack: What did you think about my solutions? In my view it's apparent that Obama had those issues covered, but the mission of the republican party was to make Obama one term president. He had to make many compromises to get his solutions thorough congress.

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

PP, I disagree with hour assessment. President Obama lacks experience as an executive and does not know how to work with Congress. Reagan faced a Democratic Congress but was able to hammer out deals and past his legislative agenda by working with Speaker Tip O'Neal. Obama also is an ideolog. Unlike Bill Clinton, he did not pivot when he lost the mid term election to Republican control. Instead, he chose the way of executive actions which in some cases were unConstitutional and in other cases were meaningless. IMHO, he wasted his political capital and could have been a unifier for our country when it comes to race relations. Instead, he made it worse with his costant intervention in police shootings and other cases even before all the facts were known.

peoplepower73 profile image

peoplepower73 2 months ago from Placentia California

Jack: Your logic is faulty. Reagan was able to work with democrats. Obama is a democrat, therefore he should be able to work with republicans. It doesn't work that way. The republican congress has done nothing to pass laws. All they have done is investigations and block every move Obama has tried to make and he succeeded in my book in spite of what they tried to do. They would even approve the payment of our debt. They held the country hostage. How do you unify that?

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

Mike, President Obama has succeed mainly in getting all the funds he wanted in the budget. The Republican Congress did not do their job under the Constitution to control the spending.

President Obama is not a Statesman, and does not know how to negotiate a bill. He was able to pass the ACA with a Democratic control of Congress. He could have passed immigration reform in his first two years, but why didn't he?

He is the only President that I know who does not hold regular Staff meetings with his Cabinet. Go look it up, it is public record. I ask you? How can someone government without meetings with his top officials? Where is Joe Biden? missing in action. He was suppose to go over line items to cut out waste in government...

jackclee lm profile image

jackclee lm 2 months ago from Yorktown NY Author

Mike, I just added a new topic - Crime and violence in inner cities. Do you care to weigh in?

BTW, in case you didn't notice, this hub was chosen to move to soapboxie niche site.

Thanks to your participation.

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