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Atheism, Communism, and Gun Control: The History of Governments That Slaughter Their Own Citizens

Updated on August 8, 2017

Atheism And Gun Control

Throughout history the facts can not be disputed, when governments combine atheism and the restriction of firearms amongst the citizens, the results have always been massacre of citizens at levels so astonishing that only the most profoundly ignorant minds ever try to reason their way around it.

Atheism is one thing, bans on firearms are quite another thing, but when atheism is a government's meme, firearm bans and massacres of citizens always follow. The notion that humanity is no more than a glorified beast is a devaluation of life already, so there is no need to ever wonder why it is that an atheist government would soon deny it's citizens their natural born rights to self defense, even less cause to wonder why an atheist government would murder tens of millions of it's citizens that it deems undesirable.

Any atheist can choose to be offended by facts, but the facts remain.

Atheist governments + gun bans = slaughter of the governed.

Josef Stalin - One Of History's Most Prolific Murderer, An Atheist That Endorsed Gun Control.
Josef Stalin - One Of History's Most Prolific Murderer, An Atheist That Endorsed Gun Control. | Source

Josef Stalin

Now folks can talk about Hitler all they like, the facts show that far and away Stalin was at least twice the killer that Hitler was. Stalin murdered more of his own people than Hitler murdered Jews, or other persons the Nazis thought undesirable. When it comes to killing people, you just can't beat this proud proponent of atheism, unless you look into China, and you can't wiggle your way around it at all either, but go ahead and try.

The atheist communist enacted laws as soon as they took power to force gun registration so they could then confiscate the weapons, rendering all political opponents helpless, defenceless, and later, dead.

When Stalin took power paranoia ruled the Soviet empire, and no one suffered more than the independence seeking persons of the Ukraine, the bread basket of Europe. Stalin, of course, took everything they had, and murdered around twenty million in the Ukraine alone via forced death labor, starvation, and firing squads, they had nothing to defend themselves with.

The best estimates concerning the total number of persons murdered by order of Stalin is around forty million unarmed souls, the communist had been trained that mankind were no more than glorified apes, and the state more important than the lives of huge numbers of individuals.

Stalin and Gun Control

Mao Tse-Tung

Mao Tse-Tung, Atheist, Gun Control Advocate, Mass Murderer
Mao Tse-Tung, Atheist, Gun Control Advocate, Mass Murderer | Source

Chairman Mao Tse-Tung

There are no precise figures for how many murders Mao Tse-Tung is directly responsible for through forced confiscation of food during the Great Leap Forward, but the atheist communist starved to death at least twenty million persons by refusing to change his inhuman policies, perhaps the starvation was, in fact, his plan, but that is merely starvation, when the barrel of a gun is your source of power, and all opposition disarmed, the absolute power corrupt absolutely.

While most scholars are reluctant to estimate a total number of “unnatural deaths” in China under Mao, evidence shows he was in some way responsible for at least 40 million deaths and perhaps 80 million or more. This includes deaths he was directly responsible for and deaths resulting from disastrous policies he refused to change.
One government document that has been internally circulated and seen by a former Communist Party official now at Princeton University says that 80 million died unnatural deaths – most of them in the famine following the Great Leap Forward. This figure comes from the Tigaisuo, or the System Reform Institute, which was led by Zhao Ziyang, the deposed Communist Party chief, in the 1980s to study how to reform Chinese society.

During the Great Leap Forward, Chairman Mao. dictator of China, literally took away the names of poor farmers, replacing their names with numbers. Atheist in power have the not so strange propensity to consider themselves as "god," and the rest as mere beast, or slave. The notion of God isn't something the human mind can rid itself of, it can only attempt to replace it with something else, and an atheist in power always replaces God with self. For this reason voting or supporting an atheist in politics is the single most delusional thing a human being can do.

When the famine years of the Great Leap Forward hit China, the atheist Mao had tons of grain stored in warehouses, but the people were disarmed and subservient to their god, a murderous dictator. Millions starved with no name, but a number, they were only mere beasts to their dictator god, and graves were robbed at night, the people had to eat something.

Pol Pot

Atheist Gun Control Advocate Pol Pot, And Some Of His "Results."
Atheist Gun Control Advocate Pol Pot, And Some Of His "Results."

Atheist Pol Pot was a big fan of Mao Tse-Tung, and like Mao, he probably thought himself a god. Regardless of what Pol Pot thought of himself, he definitely considered the people in his nation as mere beasts, and with denial of higher authority or accountability, he confiscated their weapons as soon as he took power, and set about to murder around twenty one percent of Cambodia's population.

During his time in power he imposed agrarian socialism, forcing urban dwellers to relocate to the countryside to work in collective farms and forced labor projects. The combined effects of forced labor, malnutrition, poor medical care, and executions resulted in the deaths of approximately 21% of the Cambodian population. In all, an estimated 1.7 to 2.5 million people (out of a population of slightly over 8 million) died as a result of the policies of his three-year premiership. Not bad for an atheist leader, he destroyed a higher percentage of his godless population than either Stalin or Mao in his Killing Fields.

The Killing Fields Of Cambodia - Atheism And Gun Control Don't Mix Well, Unless You Are Fond Of Mass Murder

Conclusion: Atheism + Gun Control = Mass Murder

All of the most numerous slaughters of innocent poor persons of the past one hundred years involved a single lethal combination, an atheist government that devalued the lives of human beings, and the confiscation of the governed people's firearms. The logic is singular and beyond simple, confiscation of firearms leaves a populace open for late night knocks on the door, or doors simply kicked in, and slaughter.

It is a fool that places faith in government while not being able to trust their very own neighbour with weapons, such cognitive dissonance led to the killings of millions in the former Soviet Union, China, and Cambodia at the hands of atheist governments where absolute power at the barrel's end of a gun never failed to corrupt absolutely. There is no historical evidence that an atheist government can combine it's displacement of God with gun control, and then treat the governed with anything but slaughter and starvation, and suffice it to say, there never will be.

Never support gun control, and never vote for an atheist politician unless he or she has proved beyond all doubt to be the staunchest supporter of firearms imaginable, doing so is an irreverent act of historical blindness, or a willing support of mass murder. Those ignorant of history are doomed to see it repeated, but those who know history and ignore it are friends of slaughter.

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      Wyna Tse 6 months ago

      I like your analysis! But there exists atheist government who is rather "clean", like Northern Europe and Hong Kong (where I'm from). On the other side, religion has been a very powerful political weapon. Like ISIS nowadays, where bastards murder million in the name of their god, or the pre-Renaissance period where the popes conduct public mind control to gain power. So whether the government is atheist or religious does't guarantee anything i guess.

    • profile image

      Johnny 10 months ago

      When the people render themselves defenseless is when the government sweeps in to clear the lower and borderline middle classes. What you said is true, guns are the only thing keeping the US government from assuming dominance over the American public. As long as the people keep an eye on their government and keep them in check, a country can thrive. When they cross the fine border, people must either peacefully throw their government out and institute a new one or pick up arms and force them out. Remember, a government is only as strong as the people let them be, because we outnumber them a million to one. The people of this world need to wake up and realize this instead of fearing them.

    • bgamall profile image

      Gary Anderson 2 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

      Nicom, you know Zionism is not Judaism. Why don't you come clean? You are a plant, IMO.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 2 years ago from The Midwest

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 2 years ago from The Midwest

      " In a perfect communist society "

      There ya go. The "perfect" community society needs "perfect" people to make it work. And since there are really no "perfect" people then the powers that be have to start in tweaking it a little bit here and there... and more here and there... and even more here and there. And since people ~still~ are not perfect... well... then... many of them just have to go away somewhere out of sight, out of mind.

      And wouldn't you know it... in the process some pigs wind up more special than others.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      "Capitalism values the rich and stomps on the poor."

      Completely wrong, but you are entitled to your opinion.

      "Communism helps society and embraces hard work or at the least equal work."

      Communism shapes society, stultifies hard work, and removes all incentive for self-improvement.

    • John Colarusso profile image

      John Colarusso 2 years ago

      Communism much like capitalism has its down sides. In a perfect communist society everyone is given truly the same opportunity. It does not stifle creativity it can help enbrace it. In the "communist" societies we have seen censorship runs rampent.

      In a capitalist society the common man is given a decent amount of oppurunity. However can be plagued with several disasters destroying his luck. His parents could die. College debt. Fired for unjustice reasons. However capitalism is unfair and unjust. You can be born into a terrible situation. Money rules the game and you can get stuck working 60 hours a week for $7.25 an hour both giving you no time and no money to achieve many of your dreams goals or asperations. However things can go excellent and you can start from the bottom and work to the top. Which is good in theory your work is valued and how hard you work is what you earn right? The answer is yes and no because you can work hard at that 7.25 60 hours and get raises or promotions. However you can also not get rewarded. Or the lazier employee makes more than you but joined your work 3 years later when there are staffing issues and start off making double what you make, simply because they need the employees.

      Capitalism values the rich and stomps on the poor.

      communism values it alittle more giving everyone equal opportunities. When just about everyone is given the same and everyone's actually pulling their weight then you get a society that values hard work then goes home to value the arts or practice their own with the same chances as the next. Your creativity is valued like capitalism and changes with times and demand. However everybody is given those same resources and works just as hard as you do and gives you all the time you need to be creative and not fall behind everybody else.

      Capitalism sounds great in theory but all it does is damage society as a whole. Communism helps society and embraces hard work or at the least equal work.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      Yes Communism is great. Stifle creativity, value productivity according to time spent (a hole dug in the ground has the same value as a poem), confiscate resources in the name of The State, and centrally plan everything.

      Can't wait.

    • John Colarusso profile image

      John Colarusso 2 years ago

      I believe that Communism is a good system and it has never been implemented properly. I think communism is fantastic, however people like Stalin have ruined the name of communism. Also people are too selfish for communism to work. I believe that the world should operate in more or less two ways.

      The first way being anarcist 100% free to do as you please, as long as it doesn't affect others in the process. You have to do everything 100% ON YOUR OWN to be allowed to do everything you want and must me almost entirely excluded from society.

      If you are part of a society and CHOOSE to do so you should be in a communist society. That way everybody is given the same chances same opportunities, and does the same work. More or less. In a true communist society the truly important are the ones rewarded. Those are educators, doctors, nurses, scientists, of course farmers. Everybody provides and helps.Education is 100% free, you are given the food you need to survive, stay healthy and nutrient. In a perfect communist society you have no government and everybody works together for the greater good of the people and the society as a whole.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      Communism wasn't implemented properly? You're implying that it *needs* to be implemented, which by definition implies that it is against the will of the proletariat. That sounds familiar...

    • John Colarusso profile image

      John Colarusso 2 years ago

      This is literally stupid. Stupid is what stupid does and this is pretty stupid. Communism has never been truly implimented properly and Atheist are the least violent group out there. And gun control, ovee in europe it seems to work in america i don't think so. There are too many factors to know a real answer in america. However I am pro gun.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      " And it is because of Zionism/Globalism. That multiracial cabal has started most of the wars this century for sure"

      What color is the sky in your world?

    • bgamall profile image

      Gary Anderson 2 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

      Noam Chomsky says the west has killed more people than anyone. I don't agree with him on everything, but he has documented killings. The US is starting to be the baddest of the bad guys. And it is because of Zionism/Globalism. That multiracial cabal has started most of the wars this century for sure. And done the most regime change in the name of Zionism, which is a fake Zion. Real Zionist are established by God and the Messiah, according to both the Old and New Testaments. Even True Torah Jews, real followers of Judaism, know the Old Testament was not talking about Ben-Gurion when it spoke of the Messiah establishing the New Zion according to the prophets.

    • pramodgokhale profile image

      pramodgokhale 2 years ago from Pune( India)

      Sir,

      I am an Indian and my young age i had been impressed by progress of USSR and China.Later History of Stalin, Mao , we came to know that genocide of own people . They imposed their philosophy on people for the sake of power and not for socialism or classless society.

      These nations were controlled by handful people and spy agencies and highly restricted administration.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 2 years ago from Ohio, USA

      Sanxuary , thank you for reminding us that figures lie and liars figure.

    • profile image

      Sanxuary 2 years ago

      Both China and Russia practiced one thing in common. The mass arrest of millions to create a prison Industry to privately build there empire. Now welcome to America currently the Worlds largest prison population in the World. They say the best thing about prison is that you always have a job.

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      Chad Van de Wettering 2 years ago

      I would like to give my two cents, for a big point that I think is missing from the article. Apologies if it has been brought up before, but I don't have the time today to read all of those prior comments.

      One huge factor: Atheism does not define a person; and if it does, it does not define absolutely, and it does not define identically.

      All atheists are different people. Every, single, one of them. The blanket of "atheism" does not result in a uniform creature with mirrored beliefs, moral values (or lackthereof, as your article stresses), and political preferences. My argument for saying so? Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism- all major religions, most minor religions, have a code of doctrine, a universal law that must be followed by all adherents to be a "true" follower of the religion. And even so, these religions produce wildly different people with wildly different views on life.

      Atheism, on the other hand, has no global doctrine. It is, in nature, the absence of any global doctrine. I do not regard myself as an atheist- because that would imply that I denounce any and all possibility of a higher power. I, personally, do not care enough about whether there is one or not, because that would not impact my life in any sense. All atheists are different.

      Meanwhile, following a church (I'm using the Catholic Church for my example here) that has a history of banishing its own peoples, slaughtering and exiling Jews, Pagans, and Muslims, breeding discontent and hatred to reach their own ends, and of struggling against monarchs across Europe in the endless pursuit of power (something, I believe, is discouraged by the namesake of Christianity), seems to be less than unwise.

      These atrocities, vicious as they may be, were never committed in the name of "No God!" You can find examples in history of such, certainly; but these were not. Your examples do not prove a thing, besides how horrible these people were. But their religious beliefs were not the sole cause of ANY of this. Political struggles, pursuit of power, bloodlust, and countless other causes could be examined. Simply because three atheists, who presumed they could control other people with their political prestige, murdered and enslaved so many people does not mean all atheists would do so, or even a few. This article proved nothing other than something we already knew: Stalin, Tse-Tung, and Pol Pot were bad people.

      Don't try to make this a battle. It doesn't matter what you believe. My best friend is a truer-than-true Christian, who doesn't go to church, who doesn't say grace, and who doesn't sing hymns. But he follows the teaching espoused by Jesus Christ, and that is what Christianity is- not a following of the church, but a following of Christ. This man (my friend) also believes that government should be abolished, and that all forms of social interaction should be 100% voluntary- that nothing should be forced. I've met atheists who believe all gays and foreigners should be thrown out of the country, I've met atheists who find pleasure in killing. You know what? I've found Catholics and Muslims who are the same.

      Do not make this matter about religion. This matter *is NOT* about religion. It is about faith. It does not matter what you believe, or what you're told to believe (ie. hereditary religion), or what have you. What matters is how you interpret those doctrines and beliefs; what matters is how you act, how you treat yourself and others, and how you view life as a whole. Having religion means following a figurehead, or several, and adhering to their pre-established doctrines. Having faith- faith in humanity, love, happiness- means taking the initiative and establishing your own doctrines. Had these three men faith, the world would be looking much different.

    • Gordan Zunar profile image

      Gordan Zunar 2 years ago from New York

      In your bio it says that you'll offend everyone at some point. I was really interested in what would offend me and after I went through the long list of your articles, I finally found one!

      Even though I agree with you outlining the atrocities that were committed by Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot, I have to say you either totally forgot, or deliberately left out, the governments that were/are as brutal, and yet religious, or founded on religious principles. I won't even go into what the Holy Inquisition did during Medieval period, or what the European conquistadors (who were all swearing to God) did when they invaded America (the long history of slavery conducted by religious people), or Henry VIII in the name of Anglicanism, or slavery under Ottoman Empire, or the pogroms conducted by the Russian Tsars, alongside Christian Orthodox Church, but I will skip right to Hitler, who maybe wasn't much of a believer himself (or he believed that he was god), but he definitely respected Christianity, and atheists under Nazi rule were just as much persecuted as Jews, gays and disabled people. Should I then mention the atrocities committed in the Balkans with the blessing of both Catholic and Orthodox Church (on two opposite sides though), the wars we have in Middle East over religions, the ISIS whose whole purpose is based around setting up a religious state and who opposes any secular form of government (they are killing their fellow Sunni Muslim Kurds because the Kurds are pro-secular).

      We also had some atheist leaders who did not oppress their own people, like Tito in Yugoslavia, current French president Francois Hollande, current Uruguayan president Jose Mujica, and many others.

      So, you gave three arguments against atheists. How many counter-arguments did I give?

    • bgamall profile image

      Gary Anderson 3 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

      Yes, Ben-Gurion, the avowed atheistic "prophet" of the militant Zionist movement is a globalist who influences the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Council on Foreign Relations, etc.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 3 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      David Ben-Gurion, now that's a name I've not heard in a while. I need to learn about him then. I've slipped on the entire subject some. It's like I spent at least a year absolutely not thinking about any of it....Thanks for some tips for learning about some of the avenues I'd never went down

    • bgamall profile image

      Gary Anderson 3 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

      Ah, glad you noticed I was accurate on this stuff. I wrote an ebook, Wicked Zionism about this very thing. Problem is, Wesman, that Isaiah said the new Zion would come in peace. The "Zionists" backed by Rothschilds from the beginning, stole the term Zion from the bible and used it to force their way back to Palestine by force and intimidation. They are really very wicked people. Jews have been thrown under the bus by Zionists before. The global vision of David Ben-Gurion, atheistic father of Israel, was global domination. And the setting up of the Fed and the assassination of JFK were steps toward that domination.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 3 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      bgamall - well I honestly thought you were being more snarky than not. The thing you mention about racism in Israel is apparently true.

      I truly LOVE listening to Norman Finkelstein talk, hopefully I'll get around to reading one of his books at some point or another - incidentally he's banned from Israel....or at least he was, I don't recall for how many years they banned him. Guess that whole notion of a birthright is ...dependent upon the government of Israel, which of course, makes the entire idea invalid. Rights are rights, and if you have them, some government or another can't deem themselves an arbiter of them.

      Of course I completely agree there is a huge and very well documentable globalist government push, and that the thing is seen as wonderful by lots of people from all over the world. Myself, as I'm a random US white guy, I will get heckled by everyone by even using the word "Zionism." Language absolutely evolves - and the big Z word's meaning....well, it's hard to say what exactly any user's definition of that word is these days.

      There's sure a Rothschild Boulevard in Tel Aviv though!

    • bgamall profile image

      Gary Anderson 3 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

      Well, again, Wesman, you simply don't understand my point of view. Didn't I say that the Zionist cabal was multiracial? Did you even notice that fact?

      That is crucial to my argument. It is not the condemnation of any race. It is the condemnation of the elite Zionists. My natural father was Jewish and I am adopted. I have no interest in destroying one race when the cabal, while accepting racism in Israel, is a globalist, multiracial cabal.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 3 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Also Jason....guess I wasn't signed in...somehow, after coming to the comments notification to see what cmments there where, and indeed...replying to them

      Guess a timer went off and BUZZ!! I became an "anonymous" commenter.

      Bgmail! Haven't seen you online in a long long time. Of course this page is..heck, it's from years ago..don't remember, but it's pretty old I DID decide to come back to here and write new pages...

      Noam is a fascinating fella...he's like a walking encyclopedia...with LOTS of more opinions. I wonder where Chomsky rates the Mongols? For a flat statistic like "who killed the most"...to have a perspective, then time would have to be at least part of a perspective for that....but of course the Mongol empire didn't last long at all.

      Ah...EVIL JEWS! Very literally, I used to be one of those people who was absolutely convinced in the notion of a race which was more or less more evil than any other....Jews...but to top it off, I didn't think there were any real jews...they were all Khazarian...Ah the great Khazarian conspiracy!

      Anyway...you have to toss wild ideas around in your head all the time...it's only truly a wild idea...or a really bad one when you refuse to ever consider others in seeming opposition or direct opposition to the bad idea.

    • bgamall profile image

      Gary Anderson 3 years ago from Las Vegas, Nevada

      According to Noam Chomsky, the Anglo American Empire killed more people than any other. But I will say, I am a liberal for gun rights because I believe the multiracial Zionist cabal wants to take them away and control the world. Sandy Hook was a hoax carried out by this cabal. Have you heard about the new CIA vaccine hoax?

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 3 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Hey Jason, I learned something the other day...it's maybe too astounding or improbable to be literally "true," but supposedly, there's never been a reported homicide in a Hutterite community.

      Also, in Israel there is a certain religious sect's community...and I should recall it's name, you'd have heard of it...where the government sends some of the most violent persons they'd had to deal with from the courts of law...because violence is like a fairy tale in that religious community too.

      You know...the extreme persons in any demographic...they provide us all such wonderful slogans and memes and things...that we need to show, if we've not much of a life..like..oh never mind...that they are wrong for spreading.

    • Jason R. Manning profile image

      Jason R. Manning 3 years ago from Sacramento, California

      Hey WTS! Long time my friend, I almost couldn’t make it to the bottom of your comment list, I ran out of cord and had to fire up a diesel generator. First, great hub, succinct and free of diatribe. Secondly, I could follow very well the conversations of Mr. J.Burton and Larry. All those who were upset because of the side conversations are obviously harmed by adult conversations airing serious disagreements. Wes supplied the format and others are contributing their thoughts. Where in Hubpages does it say other posters are not allowed to engage in debate over another’s hub? Sounds like you need to add a post script reminding naysayers of the First Amendment…

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 3 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      John, Google has a blog search engine...which I've not got around to exploring yet, but here it is. http://www.google.com/blogsearch

    • profile image

      Johne434 3 years ago

      To paraphrase, how do you do a search for information sites that fit what I want to check out? Does any body have learned how to BROWSE through blogs and forums by content or anything that on blog writer? . kkeedbbgcfed

    • Kasman profile image

      Kas 4 years ago from Bartlett, Tennessee

      I think I definitely agree on the point that anywhere you take God out of the equation, there is definitely a more chaotic society. Less morals and more government typically. Now, this isn't 100 percent the case.....but it's definitely a high enough number to take seriously. Another thing that most people don't realize either is the fact that most of these dictators or "atheists" will co-opt religion to still seem in good standing with the subjects of the kingdom so to speak. It's just propaganda and a lie overall. It doesn't mean they believe what they profess, it's just to keep the people from full out rebelling and seeing the truth. In a sense, we see it all the time here in the States....especially lately. History always repeats itself and the people typically fall right into the same old trap every time with the warning signs all around them that they are seemingly oblivious to.

      I think it's just like Jesus spoke of mixing religions together or belief systems. You can't worship God and something else. He won't share his glory with another for sure. I think it's also telling that in the underlying of the Communist Manifesto, it's a book dedicated to Satan himself.....saying that he was the first rebel to actually win his own kingdom. Voting this up, very interesting and telling. Sharing my brother.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      wba108@yahoo.com - exactly. It takes a person with real insecurity and a lack of respect for their very neighbors to think only goons in a federal government or police force can be trusted.

    • wba108@yahoo.com profile image

      wba108@yahoo.com 4 years ago from upstate, NY

      This gun control issue really isn't about guns as much as its about freedom! Many gun control zealots don't minds guns at all, the real issue is whose allowed to have them!

      Those who advocate strong centralized government power and a government enpowered to shape society, are the one's who want gun control. But the real issue here is really "government control", gun control zealots don't believe that the common people should be empowered to make their own decisions and therefore are unfit to trusted with firearms.

      Part of the stategy of confiscating guns is psychological. An unarmed poeples feel more helpless and dependant, and for those who seek power this is a good thing because it works in their favor politically!

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      The farmers of the Ukraine were disarmed by Stalin, and then, they were either murdered or sent to die in Siberia when they attempted to revolt...fighting armed me with shovels, pick axes, scythes, hammers, etc.

    • profile image

      Anon 4 years ago

      There's a huge lie in here. Stalin never once endorsed Gun Control, not for a minute- in fact, he freed millions of prisoners from the gulags and armed them to defend Russia, as well as gave housewives rifles and trained them as Snipers. He never needed to take a single gun, because his obvious love of violence on an extreme scale kept people from touching him- by the end of his rule, he had effectively created a sort of Stockholm Syndrome with the Russian people...

      ... For all that even matters, Stalin's most effective tool was famine. He nearly committed total genocide without ever firing a bullet.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 4 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      uzma shaheen - thanks for the VERY kind comment!

      Of course...my intent for this page was to piss off a ton of atheist sorts that forever proclaim religion as the source of various and sundry wars or evil historical ongoing.

      I guess I could type another thousand words to explain what I mean...but truly I don't much blame human nature and the individual behind an action for that action.

      I hope to someday be motivated to write about history and political things again....I've just not felt like I had much to say in a while.

    • uzma shaheen profile image

      Uzma Shaheen Bhatti 4 years ago from Lahore,Pakistan

      Whenever I come to your hubs, get new picture of world. Although these facts bring pain in me but its always good to know reality. you have become my favorite hubber on hubpages and your hubs are worth reading.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      I like that, Perspycaious!!!!!!

      Human history is so full of mass murder. Caesar in Gaul, Caesar everywhere he went.... Genghis Kahn - far worse than any I can think of...worse than Hitler, worse than Stalin even....everywhere you look....History and the present is full of horror.

      I don't understand killing anyone outside of self defense...many do not, and so now the USA kills people they claim ...in order to prevent the need to kill them in self defense...what a gem of an idea that is...but nobody seems to be paying attention.

      Shit, that Obama seems to cast some wizard's spell on people every time he starts talking.

    • Perspycacious profile image

      Demas W Jasper 5 years ago from Today's America and The World Beyond

      In denouncing the mass murderers, let us pause a moment each time to remember the victims, including the youth of Tienanmen Square, the Hutus and Tutsis, the Christians, the Jews, the Arabs, the Shiites and Sunis, the Native Americans, the masses murdered by the Japanese Imperial Army in Nanking and other parts of China, Korea, and elsewhere inAsia. Many today continue to pay the price of man's inhumanity to man, and gangs with guns rule some of America's streets, while politicians play golf and raise funds to garner power.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Well, Thanks Nick, I saw the film "Enemy At The Gate" by myself in a theater...it was very very good, in my opinion, but I'm prone to like historical things already.

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      Nick Hanlon 5 years ago from Chiang Mai

      Wow ........Wesman you certainly got a good one here.Agree witht the thrust of what you are saying.But did you know that Stalin encouraged a sniper culture before WW2?Competitions we're held and heroes we're made by state propaganda encouraging long range shooting.It paid off-the Soviets had some of the best snipers of WW2.Point granted though;we must protect out liberty.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      I'm moving a lot of things to Blogger and Info Barrel - I'll leave guitars and animals here.

      Hubpages dislikes anyone with a mind for thinking....unless you adore that abomination of Obama, etc.

      It's all good, I don't care. I'll get what I'm after with or without them.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 5 years ago from Ohio, USA

      The people who run the website also own the website and it's their sandbox. That's free speech. Hopefully you can work with them.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      As do the people that run this website! Peas in a bucket!

      Hey, it doesn't stop with guns either. Let them take the guns, and soon we can't carry a pocket knife, let them take the pocket knives, and then they kill all large breeds of protective dogs, then, they kill us...as that is what is best for us.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 5 years ago from Ohio, USA

      You expect them to address your points? hee hee.

      Oh no, they will attack you as a hick redneck uneducated uninformed toothless short-sighted lower-class public school educated Republican who doesn't understand that the world will be perfect when only criminals have guns.

      They know better than you. They just want what is best for you. They want you to think like they do.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Yep, that is what that was.

      Nobody ever addresses any of my real talking points - not the people that support bans on guns.

      It all comes down to trusting government (people you do not know, and who care none for you) with guns over trusting your next door neighbor with guns...and your neighbor does know you, and in fact, you are an asset to your neighbor.

      I do not trust any government. I trust all of my neighbors.

    • nicomp profile image

      nicomp really 5 years ago from Ohio, USA

      "It's important also imo to see how important guns are as a wedge issue in the U.S., particularly to get non-wealthy whites and evangelicals stirred up against the "liberal elites who want to take your guns away", so that republicans can win elections with rich trickle-downers on taxes/economics and non-wealthy folks in the red states. "

      Condescension alert.

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      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      Well Atheism says a person doesn't "believe", however there is no way to prove that god doesn't exist. I could agree that Atheism has nothing to do with being scientific, it just depends on the person. However, the majority of scientists are atheists.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      There is nothing irrational about an agnostic. Atheism is irrational, and besides that, unscientific.

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      There is a big difference in telling me evidence and showing the evidence. To me it's not irrational to be skeptical.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Billions of persons over thousands of years tell you there is evidence, you don't see it - so you think the majority of humanity is irrational.

      That is irrational.

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      Well I think it's ridiculous to claim a god without any evidence, to me that's irrational.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      No, but it proves to me that atheism is irrational. We don't know shit - end of story. Claiming "there is no God" is utterly ridiculous.

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      It's not so ridiculous. Simple calculus can determine a lot of the measurements. Sure we might not know everything but I don't see that as an excuse to try to discover new things.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Well mine is simple: We've five human senses, and we are on a tiny speck of dust in an infinite and expanding universe - so to think we can measure the extent of reality is ridiculous to me.

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      Oh well I'm not a part of the cult of Ayn Rand haha. My view on the world being a material one has nothing to do with my view on morality or anything of the sort. I just accept that things are made of atoms and molecules. If you shoot me in the head I will die. I won't deny something like that because I don't like it. I hope I'm making sense, sometimes it's hard communicating ideas like this on the web.

      But if I could get a sense of your views and philosophy I think it would help us both understand each other.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Well I'll call a semi truce with you and apologize for insults - but I disagree entirely with your philosophy.

      I think the lowest things possible of Ayn Rand, and I find little value in the material world outside of what I must have to live and communicate, etc - and I've already got that.

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      No I would agree that science can not prove a negative, but neither can anything else. Trust me I'm a lot smarter than some high school student, so please give me a little more credit than that. As for the arrogant shit talking dude statement, you seem to think that's a bad thing.

      I don't know where you got the view that I think money equates success, considering I never touched on the subject. I do think there is some truth in it however, like if you were running a business. It all depends on your definition of success. I do consider myself a materialist, we are all made of molecules and so on. I think what your getting mixed up is consumerism, the wanting of items that aren't considered a need. I think it's good to want what others have, it's a form of emulation. If some guy has a nice car and beautiful women around him most people would want to be like him. It's all an evolutionary process, I think that is obvious.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      EFFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      LOLOLOL!!!! Yeah, no real idea why this one got so many comments...I don't think this is half as controversial as some other things I thought were much better than this one.

      My left hand is healing...I can type with it again now...no guitar playing for me yet though...it is still very "gimpy."

      I was boiling potatoes last night...and somehow dumped boiling water on the injured hand...I'm a serious clutz and injury magnet these days :/

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Matt Rudy - are you telling me that science can prove a negative???? Sir, did you drop out of school before high school, or are you one arrogant shit talking dude?

      It's plain you equate money with success, that is materialism, an empty philosophy of idiots.

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      Paula 5 years ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

      Phew!!!! Wesman, I leave you alone for a few days and look at what you do! My word, boy-toy, you are the very BEST at getting people going and talking and debating....and it's GOOD...it's what we need. Open eyes, open minds.

      I have never been so educated and enlightened, before meeting my mentor, my guru, WTS.....this was fun, but the reading has tired me out.

      PAULA???!! You call me, Paula?? No more "effer?" Are we breaking up and you didn't tell me?

      I'm pissed...but I don't have a gun, so you're safe..lmao. I still love you.....virtually.

      cannot wait for your Sam Harris hub!

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      But the majority of the world does believe things that don't exist. I'm not really sure what your point is, but you seem to just be bashing people without any evidence to back yourself up.

      The only thing funny about your Sam Harris hub is that's all it will be, a hub. In the meantime Harris will write another book that will sell millions and make him a shit load of money. I don't know how you build a house of cards on a thesis, they're usually very well written and thought out and go through rigorous criticism and proofs among their faculty, who might hold different beliefs.

      But hey, whatever makes you happy man.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      When you suggest that the majority of the world believes in something that does not exist - that position is one of childish arrogance. Hey, I've been there, done that, bought a t shirt and set it on fire.

      Oh you're going to love it when I publish my Sam Harris hub - it is such a joy to see that moron talk about theology out of utter ignorance. He builds thesis after thesis on a house of cards...which makes everything he says total bullshit.

      It's going to be fun.

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      How do I have logical fallacies? I just said that I didn't believe in the supernatural because it doesn't exist.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Matt Rudy "supernatural" is an invalid word. All things are natural. Nothing can be "supernatural."

      Logical fallacies - you've got em'!

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      @wesman, Atheism is actually the freedom from delusions. Atheists don't believe in the supernatural or anything of the nature. I think your getting it confused with psychopaths, people who have no regard for another. Those are the types of people running the government and large businesses.

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Hello Ryan, does the United Kingdom have a narco state ran by violent CIA trained drug smugglers financed by American banks just to the South of it?

      I thought not. Comparing apples to potatoes is an exercise in futility.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Matt Rudy, I don't believe atheist exist - atheism is merely a delusion, and delusional persons running large governments is a dangerous thing.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Howdy Paperlake - I typically catch grammar or spelling errors in time. I don't always enjoy re reading something I wrote though. For whatever reason - I never seem to catch errors at all until after something is published.

      Thank you! Yes - we mustn't upset the wonderful atheists...they are oh so oppressed!!!!

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Hendricka - Criminals never seem to care what the laws are, and they will certainly always have guns.

      I think so long as a nation doesn't make atheism a part of it's national ideology, then things might not get so bad.

      I also think atheism is dying out as a fad...if Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins is all the new atheist movement has to offer....what a joke!

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Tex, are you suggesting Stalin just worked it whichever way he thought the power antenna got the best reception??

      I can buy that - but still there is the problem of atheism's creed of man as beast, which devalues life, allowing for his atrocities.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 5 years ago from The Midwest

      Ryan, are you stating for the record that if YOU were in that F-16 you would willingly bomb your fellow citizens? If you say "no" then what makes you think that other people will do so?

      What do you think would happen if the chief mechanic for that group of planes knew that his grandmother lived in the city that was going to be bombed? Or the weapons crew chief knew that was where he went to high school, and all his friends were still there?

      Stating that the 12 gauge shotgun does not stand up against the military weapons presupposes that the military will have the staff behind those weapons.

      Americans against Americans? It's not going to be quite the picture that you make of it. The last time the government tried that on a large scale it found that it bit off much more than an easy swallow. The next time it won't go down the same way.

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      Oh I wasn't arguing about gun control at all. I believe that people have the right to bear arms against the government when needed. I was just stating that attaching it to atheism is a misnomer. Sweden for instance is the most atheist country, they have the less teen pregnancies, least amount of crimes, and so on. If you go to the world health organization page you can get better numbers. I don't feel like religion was replaced in those regimes. Those leaders were praised as gods, which even claimed supernatural powers, especially Hirohito of Japan. Religion to me is more than just a holy book it's a way of thinking and wanting to be a slave of a certain party.

    • profile image

      Ryan 5 years ago

      You just named several instances where religion was replaced with a paradigm that again subverts reason. Not only do you rely on sensationalist tactics to rile up support but time and time again you provide 'facts' without context. Do you think that if the government wanted to start killing people that your 12-gauge shotgun would hold off an F16? How about this, check out the homicide rate in the UK in the last year and compare it with ours. Now I'm relying on you do to a little independent research (though I advise against it because it's a slippery slope to not believing in magic). Upon doing so you'd see that the United Kingdom's firearm homicide rate time and time again is in the double digits while our homicide rate remains in the thousands. Its this kind of weak hyperbolic phrasing that landed us in Iraq etc.

      #youmakemeashamedtobeanamerican

    • Matt Rudy profile image

      Matt Rudy 5 years ago from Frisco, TX

      To suggest that there is a correlation between atheism, gun control, and mass murder is just plain ridiculous. First off Stalin had the backing of the Russian Orthodox church and was worshiped as a god by his citizens, so in other words he lead a state religion, where people worshiped their dear leaders. Hitler was also a pronounced Roman Catholic and also made treaties with the Vatican, which celebrated his birthday every year until 1945. Kim Jong Un was also seen as a god and was reported to have been born of a virgin and at his funeral birds were apparently singing in Korean! And Kim Jong Il is the reincarnation of the father, you can see where I'm going with this. To say all atheists are mass murders is an insult undeserving of someone as yourself, who obviously has not done there homework. Atheism doesn't tie a person to any set of beliefs, it just states that they don't believe in a supernatural dimension. Steven Weinberg puts it nicely, "Left on their own good people will do good things and evil people will do evil things. But if you want a good person to do an evil thing you need religion."

    • paperlake profile image

      Liz 5 years ago from atop a unicorn, vanquishing evildoers

      Great article. The topic - however well-known - is lusciously riveting and something that never fails to spark my interest. Unfortunately, when atheists read an article like this, they seem to immediately look past all the facts (an inborn defense mechanism at work or somesuch) and see only a sheltered religious person hissing at them and calling them "evil". Christians aren't that adorable in reality. We see that there is a rich and elaborate history which, when assembled, makes incredibly compelling points that cannot be overlooked. Too bad they can't. I'd only recommend that you copy & paste this article into Microsoft Word or something to edit some spelling mistakes/grammar errors - maybe removing an overused word or two - and it'd be perfect. Good work.

    • Hendrika profile image

      Hendrika 5 years ago from Pretoria, South Africa

      These facts are very disturbing especially if I think that I live in an atheist country where the government is also trying to restrict fire arms "to prevent all the vicious crime"

    • texshelters profile image

      texshelters 5 years ago from Mesa, Arizona

      Stalin was a student at a Russian Orthodox school at the age of 10. And during WWII he reestablished the church as a patriotic institution, but then after the war, but the church was further suppressed under Khrushchev. It's a pretty mixed picture and I am not sure if Stalin was an actual atheist, or just an anti-religious communist. Further research must be done.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin

      PTxS

    • RBJ33 profile image

      RBJ33 5 years ago

      I am a weakling - I could not resist coming back to see what Jack sez - but sorry Jack I am not going to join in on a did to - did not - did to - did not peaing contest with you.

      But I will mention Jack sez - did not mention any of the compliments paid him, and there are a few, he just mentions the ones he hopes bait me. Oh yes, Jack you are quite the twister and a fair comedian - I appreciate your writings.

      Adios Hombre

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Tex, now you are asking theological questions - questions with answers, but if someone claims to be an atheist, there is little point in answering them as they have already stated "I'm not listening."

    • texshelters profile image

      texshelters 5 years ago from Mesa, Arizona

      If someone goes to services (Chile, Argentina) and meets with the pope, Mussolini, then I give them the benefit of the doubt. Who are you to say their assertions of faith are false? Are you trying to say that Christians have not been mass murderers too? Really?

      Dictators do tend to be mass murderers, whatever their faith or lack of faith.

      PTxS

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Thanks RBJ33!!!!!! No need to apologize to me - I'm appreciative of even the scathing comments I sometimes get, they are better than none at all!! :)

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 5 years ago from The Midwest

      rgb sez: I've always been under the impression alcoholism was a physical sickness, is that corerect? You should know.

      Jack repleis: I've never seen a bottle of beer physically jump up and put its hands around anyones throat, forcing them to drink it. If alcoholism is a physical sickness then the hundreds of thousands of people who have been helped by programs such as AA have just imagined in vain that their willpower (and dependence upon a higher power) has keep them dry.

      rb se: But I don't buy the analogy of alcoholism and maniac gun owners.

      Jack replies: I don't buy it either. But since no one made such an analogy then your point is moot. I made the analogy with the FREEDOM to choose.

      RB sez: Actually I think you folks should worry more about being bought by the billionaires and corporations

      JAck repleis: Darn straight. The obscene amount of money that George Soros, the Hollywood left and the incorporated unions have put into liberal politics have complete distorted the means by which we choose our government officials. Why, just the other day Obama went to SIX fundraisers in ONE DAY.

      rj sez: Wisconsin just got bought, are you next?

      Jack replies: When a 100 lb weakling starts a fight on the beach with a 200 lb body builder just to impress his girlfriend, and he gets his a$$ kicked, he shouldn't go whining to his buddies about how unfair it was.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 5 years ago from The Midwest

      rb sez: I leave you with the hope you can get rid of your anger.

      Jack replies: This is the philosophy of a poster who believes that people can't possible have legitimate, logical reasons for disagreeing with him, so any post that does ~must~ be done from "anger" or some other emotional response.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Tex - anyone in the world can claim to be a Christian, Buddhist, or whatever they choose to call themselves. I can go read Mensa books and claim to be a genius....but that won't raise my IQ a single point. Calling one's self a Christian has never a Christian made.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Hey Shaddie - guns are much better to have and not need than to need and not have!!

    • RBJ33 profile image

      RBJ33 5 years ago

      I wish to apologize first to Wesman Todd Shaw - this was a great hub as evidenced by all the responses. I kind of strayed away from letting you know that - keep writing my friend. Next I wish to apologize to Jack Burton for getting sloppy in the last line of the above comment - there are two typos - the sentence should read "I'd fear the loss of your livleyhood and your freedom, which would be equally bad and probably worse. Wisconsin just got bought, are you next." I tried to edit before it went but couldn' quite get it done.

      Jack you seem a decent guy but our conversation is beginnng to be boring. Youv'e expressed your feelings and beliefs as have I. I have other hubs I want to read and comment so I must move on. I leave you with the hope you can get rid of your anger. Your life is what you make it be - you are obviously intelligent and a good thinker. So, adios hombre - be safe, be well and chill.

    • RBJ33 profile image

      RBJ33 5 years ago

      There you are Jack Burton, I wondered where you were. I was born on the day Prohibiton ended. At about 4PM or so on December 5, 1933 the state of Utah cast the deciding vote to ratify Amendment 21 which repealed Amendement 18 and Probition ended - you could look it up - I was born about 3 hours later. Every time someone (not alcoholics) has an adult beverage they should think of me. I've always been under the impression alcoholism was a physical sickness, is that corerect? You should know.

      I believe in the right to own guns - I don't own one, never felt the need nor the desire. My dad was a policeman and had his gun near by 24/7, but he nor anyone else in my family was a hunter so other than my dad's police pistol I just wan't exposed to guns. Got my fill in basic training. So on that issue I'm with you legimate, responsible gun owners. But I don't buy the analogy of alcoholism and maniac gun owners.

      Actually I think you folks should worry more about being bought by the billionaires and corporations rather than the Government taking your guns, which won't happen. I'd fear the loss of your livelyhood, and your freedom, whichh would be equally bad, and probably worse. Wisconsin just got bought, are you next?

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 5 years ago from The Midwest

      RB asks: The question is how do we keep them separated?

      Jack answers:

      According to the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism report of December 2000

      http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/economic-20...

      “…costs of alcohol abuse grew from $148 billion in 1992 to $185 billion in 1998, approximately a 25 percent increase”

      Who knows where it is in 2012, but with certainty it has not gone down. We can perhaps put a dollar figure on alcohol abuse, but that doesn’t even begin to put a face on the shattered and lost lives, the beaten wives, the children who grow up under intolerable conditions, the jobs lost, the companies gone bankrupt, and the hazards it creates for everyone else who is innocent.

      The question is, are we as a country willing to accept hundreds of thousands of incidents for the freedom of a few to abuse a substance whose sole purpose is to get people drunk and create chaos? Or, are those people who demand that all alcohol either be strictly controlled or banned all together have the right of it?

      We do understand that the people of the United States decided that question decades ago... Remember Prohibition? Those who pushed the 18th Amendment had dreams of utopia. Get rid of demon rum and the world will be a better, safer place. It didn’t work out as they had planned. So what happened? American society, knowing full well that many would misuse alcohol, that some believed that alcohol existed for the sole purpose of getting people drunk, that homes would be lost, children abused, jobs lost, lives lost, tens of thousands of more car wrecks, and Bowery Bums roaming the streets, still passed the 21st Amendment giving back to Americans the freedom to choose what they would do.

      They considered the “collateral damage” well worth the price of freedom. It's the same with guns. There are laws against the misuse of guns. There are laws against the "wrong" people having guns. But as long as we are a free society... some very few will manage to find a way to hurt themselves and others with guns. The very same as we tolerate alcohol in our society with all the damage done to our communities; we've made the decision to tolerate the freedom to have firearms.

      And I am the son of an alcoholic -- I have very intimate first hand knowledge of just what harm comes to a family, and to individuals from demon rum. But I've never called for it to be prohibited. There was never a bottle invented that picked itself up and poured it down my dad's throat. Or my brother's throat. Or my other brother's throat. You think they would have learned better from the bad example Dad set. But society gave them that freedom to make bad choices that sometimes hurt themselves and others.

      I'd rather have that freedom than an obsessive nanny state that desires to control the actions and essential freedom of others.

    • texshelters profile image

      texshelters 5 years ago from Mesa, Arizona

      Interesting post, Wes, however, some of the causality hinted at here is misleading.

      Stalin was anti-religious, but it doesn't follow that all people who are anti-religious are anti-gun or mass murderers. What about the ever so religious Japanese in WWII? Are you going tell me those lovers of the gun (at least for the Japanese people) didn't kill millions of Chinese? It must have been religion that caused it then, eh?

      There are plenty examples of gun toting religious fanatics that killed people too in the name of the lord. Try Argentina and Chile in the eighties, for one. They were "Christian" governments.

      And hey, the US is a god fearing nation, supposedly, and people can own guns, but that doesn't stop us from killing people with drone strikes.

      I think you can point more to "dictatorships" of all stripes leading to mass murders.

      Idi Amin was into Islam, and he killed around 300,000 people. And that Catholic Mussolini? He was so peaceful because of his religion, right?

      Now, Stalin is one of the top murderers in history. However, I have not found links or evidence of his gun banning ways. Did he ban all guns, or just pistols? The only links I find are right-wing propaganda. If you have a source, book, or other that will confirm the actual gun laws during Stalin's time, send them my way.

      And Pol Pot's history is not well documented. I have read about Mao, but I am not sure if hunting rifles were still allowed? I would like to know specifics.

      I am a non-believer, and I don't care if you have a gun and I am not planning on killing anyone.

      It's dictatorships that lead to mass killing, not atheism. Atheism is just a convenient ideology for some tyrants just like nationalism and corporatism are.

      PTxS

    • RBJ33 profile image

      RBJ33 5 years ago

      There are many good gun owners - those that were taught properly and respect the gun, and what it can do. Then there are those that do not - the few that cause havoc and death because they are a little off center, are deranged, or just plain mean spirited. The question is how do we keep them separated? How do we keep guns out of the hands of the second group? There must be a way to be compatible with the first group, leave them to their guns and their respect for them, honor the right to bear arms. But how do we effectively keep guns from the second group, and out of Mexico? Is all this a corporate issue - profits and the bottom line? You know those corporations that have now been declared "persons". No Wesman there are real manics out there, not just imaganary ones - ask the victim's families, and the survivors in Arizona at Gabby's political rally - ask the families of victims in Mexico - ask the families of victims in the college campus shootings at VMI and Texas University - ask the survivors at Columbine High School here in Colorado - there are lots of people you could ask who were survivors or witnesses to some maniac that didn't respect the gun, or human life.

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Alan when I was 12 I got my first gun. My parents knew they taught me well - I wandered freely, unsupervised all over the open fields with it loaded.

      I'm looking at it as I type this, it is next to grandfather's gun, and these maniacs are mostly one's fearful imagination.

    • alancaster149 profile image

      Alan R Lancaster 5 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

      Wouldn't it be nice if some of the people who own or use guns had minds of their own instead of trusting to the gun having one. Trouble is they get power-mad in possession. It's too easy to run amok with a gun. It takes courage bordering on the insane to carry a blade into battle. With a gun you only have to pull a trigger, whereas with a sword or axe you have to 'do your own' killing. Virtually anybody can be a hero now.

    • Jack Burton profile image

      Jack Burton 5 years ago from The Midwest

      Shaddie... guns can be quite frightening to those who are unused to them, but once they are mastered they can lead to a lot of enjoyment (and empowerment).

      While not a perfect analogy, let me compare them to a strange, large dog that may be pretty snarly. You wouldn't just jump up and try to hug the dog and persuade it that you're its best friend. You approach the dog with care and understanding, knowing that it will take incremental approaches to gain the trust of the pooch in order to eventually become bonded.

      Of course, the difference is the dog has a mind of its own and a gun doesn't.

      There are many good people out there who can work with you to gradually understand guns and take you shooting. Always start with learning the safety rules, the same as you do with animals. Learn the mechanics, the same as you do with animals. If you push here, this happens. If you pull here, then that happens.

      So far, it is nothing that you have not done many times in the past under other circumstances. It's also the same help that you've given people who might have a fear of animals. That should help you feel more comfortable.

      Animals trainers normally don't start their career with lions, tigers and elephants, and starting shooting should be done with a small caliber weapon such as a .22 LR. You'll never feel the recoil, and the noise, while there, is very bearable. After 30 minutes of shooting a .22 you might be surprised at how interesting and fun it is. Especially if you are shooting at about ten feet and can actually note the number of times you are hitting the target. (Balloons are great to shoot -- I still get a "yeah" feeling when I pop that balloon.)

      I've taught many women to shoot and they've all been gratified to learn how. Don't ask someone that you consider a jerk to teach you. If they are a jerk everywhere else they'll probably be a jerk on the firing line. That is the absolute worst thing that can happen to you if you want to learn how to enjoy shooting -- or even just to get comfortable with it so you lose your fear of it.

      I encourage you to mouse around the Cornered Cat website... it is by women and for women...

      http://www.corneredcat.com/Why_I_Carry_a_Gun/

    • Shaddie profile image

      Shaddie 5 years ago from Washington state

      Very true, I like your outlook on all this stuff. I don't even have a gun, frankly I'm a little scared to hold them (pretty sure I'll accidentally hurt myself), but I 100% agree with the possession of firearms.

    • RBJ33 profile image

      RBJ33 5 years ago

      Yes Wesernman that's a given -

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      THERMOSOPHISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Yes people can be quite strange - but I believe most of us are a lot more simple than is imagined in the public hive mind.

    • alancaster149 profile image

      Alan R Lancaster 5 years ago from Forest Gate, London E7, U K (ex-pat Yorkshire)

      'Theosophy' is a useful word, Wes. What's the word for the ones who hi-jack somebody else's work to rattle on at one another. They're maybe 'Thermo-sophists' (Hot Air philosophers).

      Ah well, here's another thought for you: 'There's nowt so queer as folk' (sort that one out)!

    • Wesman Todd Shaw profile image
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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      Thanks very much, RBJ33! That is a partial theme, of course, disarming the public gives absolute power to the absolutely corrupted. :)

    • RBJ33 profile image

      RBJ33 5 years ago

      Good hub - I wanted to comment but after reading the Larry vs Jack tirade I'm worn out. Brings to mind a couple kids at recess - did to - did not - did to - did not. Or prhaps a Republican and a Democrat arguing an issue - those two need to go share a smoke, or have a beer.

      Anywasy Wesman there are many bad guys down through history, and today, whose wiring went wrong regardless of their label - Christian - Atiest - whatever. Power corupts and absolute power corupts absolutely, and when their followers follow with blind faith ????????

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      Wesman Todd Shaw 5 years ago from Kaufman, Texas

      pramodgokhale - thanks very much! I believe this age of humanity is just about over now. It's going to get worse before it gets better, but we can only do so much.